Find Ancestors

I am not sure of Elizabeth's precice birth date.
I know she was employed as a parlourmaid in Hammersmith at 8 Greenside road Chiswick Hammersmith but she does not appear on the 1911 census; and gave birth to a son Joseph Restall Spencer in June 1910 with no father shown on his birth certificate. I have assumed she would have been aged about 18 to 26 years of age in 1910 and so her birth date would be 1884 to1892 ish. I have been told she had a sister named Lucy .
In 1936 Elizabeth lived at 36 Byegrove road Colliers wood London with her son Joseph and now had a husband also named Joseph Spencer. The son Joseph met and married Florence Mears and they lived at a nearby street in Colliers wood.
Joseph and Florence Spencer are my wife's parents.

Peter

Youre going to get yourself in a pickle with guessing. Start with what you have as 'fact' which also means having certificates

Could Elizabeth have been called 'Restall' and the Joseph Spencer that you say she is with in 1936 was indeed 'young' Josephs dad

There is no marriage to indicate that Elizabeth married Joseph

Also it seemed the family moved around as here is her sons death in Yorkshire

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Joseph Restall Spencer
Name: Joseph Restall Spencer
Birth Date: 31 May 1910
Death Registration Month/Year: 1973
Registration district: Sheffield
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2d
Page: 453

I think you ae going to need his birth cert, presumably

Births Sep 1910
SPENCER Joseph E W Rugby 6d 583
SPENCER Joseph R Brentford 3a 171 <<<<

Peter

If Ginny is correct then there is this Elizabeth

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1893
Restall Elizabeth Fulham 1a 278

Fulham registration district covered Hammersmith in this period

Irene

source - http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/

I think you already have the birth cert for Joseph but do you have his marriage certificate?

Anyone available to do a 1911 for the Eliz Restall that Irene found please?

There are these 2.


1911 census transcription details for: 17 Cathcart Road South Kensington SW
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN125 RG78PN4 RD2 SD1 ED38 SN62

Reg. District: Kensington Sub District: Kensington South
Parish: Kensington Enum. District: 38
Address: 17 Cathcart Road South Kensington SW
County: London
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
RODWELL, Ethel D F I Head Married
2 years F 32 1879 London Middlesex
RODWELL, Gerald L Husband Married
2 years M 23 1888 Motor Car Salesman India United Burmas
PETRI, Frederick Aug Boarder Single M 50 1861 Chemical Merchant Germanymctd
ROTHSCHILD, Otto Boarder Single M 19 1892 Volunteer In Business Germany Cannstatt
HAHN, Fritz Boarder Single M 19 1892 Volunteer In Business Germany Wiesbaden
RESTALL, Elizabeth Servant Single F 17 1894 General Servant London Hammersmith


and


Close Window
1911 census transcription details for: 42 Stebbing St Notting Hill W
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN221 RG78PN7 RD3 SD1 ED25 SN45

Reg. District: Fulham Sub District: North Hammersmith
Parish: Hammersmith Enum. District: 25
Address: 42 Stebbing St Notting Hill W
County: London
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
RESTALL, Thomas Husband Married M 42 1869 Plasterer Kensington Middisex
RESTALL, Mary Ann Wife Married
22 years F 40 1871 Ironer Kensington Middisex
RESTALL, Thomas Son Single M 22 1889 Plasterer Labourer Hammersmith
RESTALL, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 20 1891 Hook Dipper Boots Hammersmith
RESTALL, Florence Annie Daughter Single F 17 1894 Hook Dipper Boots Hammersmith
RESTALL, Selina Mary Daughter F 12 1899 School Hammersmith
RESTALL, Earnest George Son M 7 1904 School Hammersmith
RESTALL, Walter Son M 3 1908 School Hammersmith
BRAIDS, Rose Boarder Single F 18 1893 Kitchen Maid Hammersmith

Thanks Elizabeth, could you do a 1911 on the son please

x

Corresponding 1901s


1901 census transcription details for: 36, Thorne Street, Barnes
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 680 Folio: 74 Page: 17

Reg. District: Richmond Sub District: Mortlake
Parish: Barnes Enum. District: 17
Ecclesiastical District: St Marys City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 36, Thorne Street, Barnes
County: Surrey
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
SWANE, Edward Head Married M 25 1876 General Labourer
Brighton
Sussex
SWANE, Eliza Wife Married F 27 1874
Hammersmith
SWANE, Kate Daughter Single F 3 1898
Hammersmith
RESTALL, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 7 1894
Hammersmith




1901 census transcription details for: 14, Fowell Street, Kensington
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13 Piece: 25 Folio: 10 Page: 12

Reg. District: Kensington Sub District: Kensington Town
Parish: Kensington Enum. District: 38
Ecclesiastical District: St Clements Notting Dale City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 14, Fowell Street, Kensington
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
RESTALL, Thomas Head Married M 32 1869 Plasterer
Hammersmith
London
RESTALL, Mary Ann Wife Married F 32 1869 Laundress
Kensington
London
RESTALL, Thomas Son Single M 12 1889
Hammersmith
London
RESTALL, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 9 1892
Hammersmith
London
RESTALL, Florence A Daughter Single F 7 1894
Hammersmith
London
RESTALL, Glencoe M Daughter Single F 1 1900
Hammersmith
London



No sign of a Lucy yet.

Maybe?


1911 census transcription details for: 7 Melina Road S Bush
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN211 RG78PN7 RD3 SD1 ED15 SN646

Reg. District: Fulham Sub District: North Hammersmith
Parish: Hammersmith Enum. District: 15
Address: 7 Melina Road S Bush
County: London
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
SPENCER, Abraham Head Married M 73 1838 Cab Driver Horse Kensington Middlesex
SPENCER, Annie Daughter Single F 28 1883 Battersea
SMITH, Louisa Daughter Married F 26 1885 Housewife Fulham
SMITH, Charles Son In Law Married M 30 1881 Laundryman Washer Hammersmith
SMITH, Charles Grandson M 8 1903 School Hammersmith
SMITH, Jack Grandson M 6 1905 School Hammersmith
SMITH, George Grandson M 3 1908 Hammersmith
SMITH, Avice Granddaughter F 6 1905 Hammersmith
SPENCER, Joseph Grandson M 0 (11 MONTHS) 1911 Cheswick (should be Chiswick)

Now thats very interesting!

Edit;

1901 England Census
about Abraham Spencer
Name: Abraham Spencer
Age: 61
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Kensington, London, England

Civil parish: Hammersmith
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Stamford Brook
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Fulham
Sub-registration district: North Hammersmith (including Starch Green)
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 386
Household Members: Name Age
Abraham Spencer 61 <<<<Cab driver
Louisa Spencer 16
Eliza Spencer 13 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And in the 1891

1891 England Census
about Abrahm Spencer
Name: Abrahm Spencer
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Kensingham, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Hammersmith
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: London
Country: England


Registration district: Fulham
Sub-registration district: St Paul Hammersmith
ED, institution, or vessel: 25a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Abrahm Spencer 50
Jane Spencer 43
John Spencer 14
Annie Spencer 9
Elizabeth Spencer 8
Louisa Spencer 6
Eliza Spencer 3
Abrahm Spencer 6/12
Eliza Barrett 28

Peter what address is on that birth certificate for Joseph Restall Spencer please?

Close Window
1891 census transcription details for: 138, Blythe Road, Hammersmith
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12 Piece: 39 Folio: 107 Page: 36

Reg. District: Fulham Sub District: St Paul Hammersmith
Parish: Hammersmith Enum. District: 25
Ecclesiastical District: St Matthew City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 138, Blythe Road, Hammersmith
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born
SPENCER, Abraham Head Married M 50 1841 Cab Driver
Kensington
Middlesex
SPENCER, Jane Wife Married F 43 1848
Chute
Hampshire
SPENCER, John Son Single M 11 1880
Battersea
Surrey
SPENCER, Annie Daughter F 9 1882 Scholar
Battersea
Surrey
SPENCER, Elizabeth Daughter F 8 1883 Scholar
Battersea
Surrey
SPENCER, Louisa Daughter F 6 1885 Scholar
Battersea
Surrey
SPENCER, Eliza Daughter F 3 1888
Hammersmith
SPENCER, Abraham Son M 0 (6M) 1891
Hammersmith
BANETT, Eliza Visitor Single F 28 1863 Dressmaker
Wimborne
Dorsetshire



Could Louisa be sister Lucy. Lots of conjecture at the moment though.
Will be back in a while.

There seems to be quite some difference between her baptism and her census age

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Elizabeth Spencer
Name: Elizabeth Spencer
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 24 Jun 1883
Father's Name: Abraham Spencer
Mother's Name: Jane Spencer
Parish: St Peter, Battersea
Borough: Wandsworth
County: Middlesex

Born 9th March 1883



England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Elizabeth Spencer
Name: Elizabeth Spencer
Year of Registration: 1883
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Wandsworth
County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 632 (click to see others on page)

Wow! Thanks a bunch all.
I will print this lot off and spend time following up.
I sent Elizabeths address at the birth of her son Joseph byclicking on Ginny a few minutes ago but not too sure, or sure at all, to be truthful how this works. The address for Elizabeth shown on Josephs birth certificate is 5 Powell road Chiswick, Elizabeth worked at 8 Greenside road as a parlourmaid. Chiswick liabrary tell me 5 Powell road did not exist but that James & sarah Spencer lived at 6 P owell road in 1918 (5 may relly be 6) possibly.

Elizabeths address shown on Josephs birth certificate is 5 Powell road, advice from Chiswick library says this address did not exist but there was a 6 Powell road and a James & Sarah Spencer lived there in1918. Ihave Joseph R Spencer and Florence his wifes marriage certificate which shows the two fathers names and bride and groom's names.

Thanks for the PM

Thanks for your reply. I have Joseph Restal Spencers birth certificate, June1910/ammended to May 1910 which gives no fathers name; gives mothers name as Elizabeth Biddy Spencer of 5 Powell Road, she worked as parlourmaid at 8 Greenside road hammersmith.

I know Joseph and his wife moved to Sheffield and that Joseph died and was cremated in Sheffield. I have checked who lived at 5 Powell road chiswick in 1901&1911 to no avail.

Chiswick liabrary tell me 5 Powell road did not exist at the time requested but they suggest a James and Sarah Spencer who were on their Electors register at 6 Powell road in 1918 may be related.

I have collected several Elizabeths alive in the1911 time and located in the chiswick hammersmith area but sending for their birth certificates would be too expensive and may not be the correct person anyway


You never said there was a middle name of BIDDY

My gosh I think between us we've cracked it!

The 1911 showing Joseph with his grandfather at 7 Melina Road is right next to 5 Powell Road...if not the same road

Its now shown as 'Church St' Google Maps and have a look for yourself


Well done everyone....now you need the certificate Peter!