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Has anyone got sharper eyes and brain than me please?
I have a birth cert. for 13/5/1878 William George Thomas born Maesteg Wales son of William Thomas and his wife Sarah Ann formerly Howard. I have a marriage cert. for William George where his father is listed as William Thomas.
I can find them on the 1891 census where William and Sarah Ann have a daughter Martha aged 17 and son John aged 15 as well as William aged 13 born Maesteg and other children. Father William born Pembrok and mother Sarah Ann born Newport.
However I can't find them on the 1881 census, nor can I find their marriage, nor Sarah Ann's birth at Newport. The name William Thomas is so common that there are many that it could be.
Has anyone any ideas please?

A few more details are useful for searching -- in the 1891 census:

Civil parish: Llanfrechfa Upper
Town: Upper Cwmbran
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Registration district: Pontypool
Sub-registration district:

William Thomas 40 - Tin worker
Sarah A Thomas 38
Martha Thomas 17 - born Masteg, Glamorganshire
John Thomas 65 - no, 15; born ? Pile, Glamorganshire
William Thomas 13 - born Masteg, Glamorganshire
George Thomas 12 - born Abercarne, Monmouthshire
David Thomas 7 - born Clydach, Glamorganshire
Emily Thomas 5 - born Abertillery, Monmouthshire
Sarah A Thomas 3 - born Llanfrechfa
Lewis Thomas 1
John Smith 16

Possibly you're looking at a blended household.

This one in 1881 might be worth considering.

William Thomas 29 - born: Pembrokeshire; occupation: Building contractor's agent
Annie Thomas 33
> William G. Thomas 3 - born: Breconshire
Daisy Thomas 2
> G.C. Thomas 3mo - born: Newport, Monmouthshire
Sarah A. Fortune 15
Harriett C. Payne 15


oops, no, you actually have the 1878 birth cert for William. Unless Sarah Ann went by Annie?

Jennifer
Have you got William and Sarah Ann on the 1911 census?
The only reason I ask is because I've found a widow in 1881 with children William and George the daughter of a Blanche Harwood living in Swansea.
As Thomas is such a common name it is possible that Sarah Ann might have married twice and both spouses could have been William Thomas.
I'm still trying to find a William Thomas in 1881 with children Martha and John.
Of course this could all be fanciful thinking on my part but the 1911 would give you number of years married which might give a clue given that the family can't all be found together in 1881
Von

Von and I are on the same track -- that the 1891 household is a blended one. I'd been looking for the various children by their various birthplaces, hoping to find some with a matching parent ...

I'll put some money on the 1911 census tomorrow and have a look for William and Sarah as it hadn't occured to me that might be a solution. Too tired tonight!

1901 has different birth places:

1901 Wales Census
about Sarah Ann Thomas
Name: Sarah Ann Thomas
Age in 1901: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil parish: Van
Ecclesiastical parish: Caerphilly St Martin
Town: Van
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Llandaff
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
William Thomas 49 Llangannod, Glamorgan
Sarah Ann Thomas 46 Newport, Monmouthshire
Emily Thomas 15 Llangannod, Glamorgan
Sarah Ann Thomas 14 Llangannod, Glamorgan
Lewis Thomas 11 Llangannod, Glamorgan
Gladys Thomas 7 Llangannod, Glamorgan
Maria Thomas 5 Llangannod, Glamorgan
Elizabeth Thomas 3 Llangannod, Glamorgan
George Thomas 17 Llangannod, Glamorgan
David Thomas 20 Llangannod, Glamorgan

Rose

All "ditto"s, Rose? ;)

I might think it reliable for William the father, but the rest, hmm.

Hi Janey,

They weren't all dittos. There were some lodgers between Elizabeth and George who had different birth places.

Jennifer,

With so many William Thomases, what leads your to believe the 1891 family is yours?

Rose

Good question. I think the 1891 census is right because on William George Thomas marriage cert his father's occupation is tin worker and I am 100% sure the marriage cert is right. I have deduced I have the right birth cert because he is 21 on the marriage cert on 8/5/1899, and 22 on the 1901 census taken 31/3/1901. Therefore the 1891 census shows parents of the correct name and father's occupation is correct, and W.G.s birth place is correct but of course his age should be 12.
Sorry I did find that 1901 census but with all the birth places listed the same I did not think it was worth going by.

I was going to look at the 1911 census but there are just so many I will have to wait until the subscription covers the 1911 census rather than pay as you go.
Its an interesting idea though that she might be the daughter of Blanche Harwood and the only objection I can come up with is that W.G. should be two and not four, but Sarah's age would tie in with the age she is on the 1901 census.

Jennifer,

Can you list the details of the marriage cert? Include occupations, addresses, witnesses, etc.

Rose

Perhaps?

Marriages Sep 1874
***HAYWARD Sarah Gower 11a 1005
Stevens Elizabeth Gower 11a 1005
Stone Thomas Gower 11a 1005
***Thomas William Gower 11a 1005

Marriages Mar 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ayers George Henry Swansea 11a 712
Harris Mary Swansea 11a 712
***Horwood Sarah Swansea 11a 712
***Thomas William Swansea 11a 712


Rose

Where is William in 1901?

Rose

Marriage of William George Thomas to Elizabeth Ann Francis at the parish church at Llantarnam [Cwmbran] William was 21 a batchelor and a collier of 25 Grange Road and son of William Thomas a tin worker. Elizabeth was 19 a spinster of 16 Brick Row daughter of William Francis a labourer. The witnesses were Arthur and Emily Thomas

William George had a sister Emily but she was too young to be a witness I think.

Father William was at Van near Caerphilly.

William George listed below

William Thomas aged 22 a coal hewer below ground born Maesteg was living with his wife Elizabeth age 21 born Rhymey and daughter Ethel age 1 born Rhymey as boarders with James Thomas age 22 a coal hewer born Treherbert and his wife Nella and son Arthur and Elizabeth a 3 year old visitor born Rhymey. They were living at 2 Charles Street Treherbert Rhondda.

I agree both those marriages are possibles but I just wonder if on everything else that I have she calls herself Sarah Ann would she have called herself just Sarah on her marriage?

Hi Jennifer
The William George I found in 1881 with widowed mother Sarah Ann is still with Sarah Ann in 1891 living with Blanche Horwood.So they can't be part of the 1891 family that you found.
Hey ho still searching though.
Von
Edit I think I've found them still together without Blanche so can be eliminated from our enqiries.

Jennifer,

Do you have Ethel, Elizabeth and William in 1911? There appears to be a John Patrick Thomas born c1882 with them. Do you know who this is?

Rose

Rose, you have me worried now. I have the following for him.
William George Thomas age 32 a colliery timberman born Maesteg was living at 23 St Dials Road Cwmbran with his wife Elizabeth Ann age 31 born Rhymney and their children Ethel Amelia age 11 born Cwnbran Iris Amy age 9 born Caerphilly Evelyn Elizabeth age 7 born Cwmbran Sarah Ann age 5 born Pontnewydd Wilfred George age 3 born Pontnewydd and Mary Kathleen age 1 born Caerphilly. John Patrick Francis age 29, Elizabeth's brother born Cwmbran was living with them

Sudden thought have you misread the entry for Elizabeth's brother or have I looked at another family entirely? I am actually doing this research for my hairdresser so I don't have the census document any more as I have passed it on to her.

The transcription has him listed as John Patrick Thomas. I don't have access to the image.

I thought it might be William's brother but I couldn't find a birth that fit.

Rose