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yes the last one is him the top one is the son

and we think he married in 1901 and died shortly after

yes because on one of the birth certs the farther is frederick samuel bellamy and there just so happens to be a frederick samuel bellamy in the same court in st sidwell exeter then in the workouse too much of a coincidence for her to have just made a name up

Where is the name Frederick Samuel Bellamy coming from? I'm not seeing a birth.


There's one marriage in that name:

Name: Frederick Samuel Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 183

apparently to Ellen Stevens -- is that young Fred?


And a possibly death to match Fred Sr:

Name: Frederick Bellamy
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 46
District: St Thomas
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 24


This could be the birth:

Name: Frederick Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 91

1881


Name: Frederick Bellamy
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Mary Major Exeter

Civil Parish: Exeter St Sidwell
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street address: "City Workhouse" Heavitree Road
Occupation: Upholsterer

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: City Workhouse

Name: Ellen Jane Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 73


So is there any idea why Ellen Jane's children are called Neal in two censuses? Just enumerator error?


If Ellen Jane was a Bellamy by birth and was not married, her children would have been registered as Bellamy, likely with no father's name recorded.

What I can't figure out is why you think that

"ellen jane bellamy did not marry frederick samuel bellamy just had children with him"

Her own name was Bellamy -- is there a reason to think that the father was also a Bellamy?

Okay ...

"ellen janes mother frances norman was married to william thomas bellamy so she is infact a bellamy by birth."

By 1881 she was calling herself Frances Neal, and her daughter Ellen Neal, and her granddaughter Maud Neal.

In 1891 she's "wife of" Henry Neal.


Name: Frances Sophia Norman
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 174

groom on page William Thomas Bellamy.

but she ellen jane bellamy did not marry frederick samuel bellamy just had children with him

And here's Frances's marriage -- kinda like shooting fish in a barrel here ...


Name: Beatrice Frances Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 187


She married George Duckham or Frank Bealey.

And here she is in the 1901 census:


Name: Frances Duckham
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Exeter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Sidwell
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 26

Frances Duckham 21
George Duckham 27

and yes ellen janes mother frances norman was married to william thomas bellamy so she is infact a bellamy by birth.

in the 1881 census he was 27 all the others are just ways of trying to prove this chap!

born 1854-1855 i need concrete evidence that this guy is the father of william "willie" bellamy dob 1887

I searched for a Maud in the 1901 census who was born 1878 +/- 2 years in Exeter.

I saw that one in the results list, and she looked good.

So I searched for the marriage of Walter Hitchcock in 1898. And there he was -- a stray third wheel on a page with another couple, just like her.

Someone copied "175" as "195" when they copied the marriage info for Maud into the General Registry Office Index back in 1898.


Ordinarily, once you find someone's marriage at FreeBMD, you click on the page number and you see four names, two brides and two grooms (sometimes six, sometimes eight, sometimes two) -- or sometimes an odd number, indicating that there's a mistake somewhere in the transcription, or in this case, unusually, in the original. You suffer from bad luck!

Before mid-1911, the only way to be certain which bride married which groom is to get the marriage certificate. In 1911, the GRO started pairing them up.

Meanwhile, this person in 1901 is not your Maud:

Maud E Luxton Fredrick abt 1879 Exeter, Devon, England Wife Exeter, Devon

She was Maud Endacott Mann before marriage. Just for ruling out, in the search for her married name.


Here we go then. In 1901:


Name: Ellen Maud Hitchcock
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Walter J
Gender: Female
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Exeter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Olave
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Household schedule number: 254

Ellen Maud Hitchcock 23
Walter J Hitchcock 27


I would order the marriage certificate under the husband's name -- his seems to be correct (I checked the image, and it does say 175), while hers seems to have been misrecorded in the GRO.

Name: Walter John Hitchcock
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 175


Unfortunately, I still suspect it may not tell you what you're looking for.

rite i can find people but where does it tell me who they married? sorry

Okay, you're losing me, Simon.

"this is why its confusing her father was a bellamy aswell william thomas bellamy!"

The father of Ellen Jane Neal / Bellamy / Gard

was

William Thomas Bellamy?

And you think the father of Ellen Jane's children was

"frederick bellamy who we have in the workhouse in exeter aged 27"?

Age 27 -- in what year might that be?

i have just got on freebmd and learning as fast as i can lol like i said new to me

Is this not likely Maud marrying? (Q again -- have you used FreeBMD to look?)


Name: Maud Ellen Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 195


Great. Her details appear to have been mistranscribed. She is shown on a page with a bride and groom in Newton Abbot.

...No ... it definitely says Exeter, 5b, 195.

224 people married in Exeter and were recorded in vol 5b in that quarter. Finding errors would be a rather large task.

I would order the marriage certificate and include notes indicating that there may be an error in the GRO.

the mystery is frederick samuel bellamy is he my gggf?
william or willie is my ggf

if we go strait back to frederick we think his parents are joanna (----) b1819 and charles bellamy b1815ish they had a daughter called emma b1850ish again we think!! is there any way you can confirm that?

this is why its confusing her father was a bellamy aswell william thomas bellamy!

Hmm. Ellen Neal married as Bellamy.


Marriages Jun 1892
Bellamy Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 224
Gard Charles Henry Exeter 5b 224


And yet she doesn't even seem to have used that name in censuses.

You can get that Maud birth cert Simon -- but my bet is that you'll find no father named.

So now that you're not so much of a novice anymore, you know what kind of info to provide!

(Offering to open yr tree isn't as useful as just putting the info in the thread to start with. It's very much of a pain to be looking at a thread and at the same time trying to make one's way around a foreign family tree.)

So the girls married as Gard. Do you have them in the 1901 census? Are you assuming they married as Gard? How do you know they took on the Gard name -- Willie and Fred apparently didn't, and they were younger ...