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Can anyone help me sort out these census returns for my G G Gran Ellen, she appears to be born in Ireland, Sunderland and Jarrow, was unmarried then widowed but still Jones so must have married another Jones and her ages is all over the place, 1861-81 must be correct as my G Gran Annie is 5, 15 and 25 in them if anyone can find alternative 1841/51 census returns that fit Ellen let me know as something doesn't seem right about them
1841 England Census about Elen Jones Age: 7 born: Durham, England Civil parish: Jarrow Hundred: Chester (East Division)
County/Island: Durham Source information: HO107/298/2
Reg district: South Shields Sub-reg district: Westoe Elen Jones abt 1811 Jarrow Durham John G Jones abt 1811 Jarrow
Elen Jones abt 1834 Jarrow Elizh Jones abt 1832 Jarrow
Marge Jones abt 1838 Jarrow Mary Jones abt 1834 Jarrow
1851 England Census Ellen Jones Age: 17
Relation: Servant born: Shields, Durham, Civil parish: Easington County/Island: Durham Reg district:Easington district:
1861 Spring Garden Lane RG9/3779 Head Mary Meigham wid 35 Ireland, Margaret dau 14 Ireland, Ellen Jones sister Unmarried 26 Ireland, Annie Jones neice 5 born Sunderland
1871 RG10/5016 folio 54 page 23 Sunderland Durham 43 Spring Garden Lane same street as 1861 Ellen Jones age 33 W Charwoman Sunderland
Ann dau age 15 born Sunderland Day Servant born
Mary Jones age 7 Sunderland
1881 Sunderland Durham Ettrick Place Ellen Jones head W age 40 Charwoman all born Sunderland Durham Patrick Dockerty age 27 son in law
Annie Dockerty age 25 Mary A grandaughter age 6
Michael grandson age 4
Ellen grandaughter age 1
Julie
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First of all, which child in 1881 are you following and do you know that's definitely the right family?
Gwyn
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Taking it that the info is correct and we are following Ellen . There is an easy solution given occupations.(servant/charwoman)
1861 shows unmarried with Annie as daughter.
1871 shows widowed with Annie and Mary.
The widowed may well have been a nice way to explain 2 illegitimate daughters 8 years apart and there never was a husband
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Hi Gwyn, Christopher and Cagsie
Sorry for the delay getting back to you, I'm here now. My Gran is Sarah Docherty, G Gran Annie Docherty/Jones wife of Patrick and G G Gran Ellen Jones. Dad always said the Docherty's came from Cork, not been able to find any evidence of that so far. I can't find Ellen in 1891 so I think she must have died young, here is Patrick and Annie's family in 1891/1901
1891
RG12/4143 51 26 Sunderland, Durham
4 Ettrick Place 2 rooms occupied
Patrick Doherty, head, 50, Rivetter (ship), b. Northumberland Newcastle
Ann, wife, 49, b. Durham Sunderland (as all others)
Mary A, dau, 16
Michael, son, 14
Ellen, dau, 13
Josh, son, 11
Robert, son, 8
Sarah, dau, 6
Kate, dau, 4
James, son, 1 mo
Right names, same addy as 1881 but wow are Patrick and Annie's ages out
1901 England Census Name: Sarah Docherty Age: 14 Relation: Daughter Mother's name: Mary A born: Sunderland, Civil parish: Sunderland Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity Town: Sunderland ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Household schedule number: 88 James Docherty 11 Joseph Docherty 19 Katie Docherty 13 Mary A Docherty 40 Mary A Docherty 24 Michael Docherty 22 Robert Docherty 16 Rose Docherty 5 Sarah Docherty 14
How come mum is now Mary A and she is 40 so can't be Annie's younger sister Mary I don't know, but the kids names and ages fit perfectly for the family
Mary A 1877, Michael 1878, Thomas William 1878, Ellen 1880, Joseph 1882, Robert 1884, Sarah 1886, Catherine 1888, James 1891, Patrick 1893 and Rose 1894.
When Patrick and Annie married 25 May 1876 at St Patrick's the witnesses were Helen Jones, Mary Jane Potts and James Fawcett no mention of a father for Annie, I don't have the certificate but another Docherty descendant has and gave me these details
I did wonder if the details for Ellen 1841/51 could be wrong but I cannot find any census returns for an Ellen Jones from Ireland and Annie's birth doesn't seem to appear on the bmd, the Docherty's and Jones families have been one of my worst brick walls to break through, there is so little to find about them, I think all the certificates, photos etc must have been passed down through various Docherty descendants and have gone missing over the years, I've never come across anyone on GR or Ancestry with any more info than I have so far unfortunately. Hope this extra info helps
Julie
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Hi Cagsie
Many thanks for Annie's birth, at least they were right on the 1861 census about Annie born in Sunderland. Jones is one of those names that is so popular it's going to be almost impossible to find Ellen if she was born in Ireland, I have Pearce and Hill families in Ireland with Pete my hubby it's Gallagher and Moren/Moran families and I know how difficult it is to find these Irish ancestors, even with familysearch.
Julie
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