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Hello,

I have just received a birth certificate for Charles Johnson b 1847 Prescot. It has both his parents details on (father Charles Johnson, mother Ellen - formerly known as Pinnington) living in Thatto Heath, Sutton; and it states that the informeant was a Catherine Pinnington who was the occupier.

I think that Catherine may be Ellen's sister or mother; but how do I find out how or if Catherine and Ellen are related?

All help is gratefully received.

Regards

Rachel

When did Ellen marry? Is she on the 1841 census with her parents and possibly Catherine?

Sam x

Ellen and Charles married in 1830 in Prescot. Both Ellen and Charles are on the 1841 census with the Johnson family (Charles' siblings and possibly Ellen and Charles' children).

I have found some Johnson's on the 1841 census who were in the same household as Charles and Ellen - the slight problem is that on the 1841 census, there is no indication of how people are related to the head of the household.

So I am stuck now - I know Charles and Ellen married in 1830, but have no idea as to Charles' and Ellen's parents or siblings and who this Catherine Pinnington is.

There is an Ellen born around the same time as yours with a mother named Catherine...

I don't know Lancashire so don't know if Hindley is in the right area or not.

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download
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ELLEN PENNINGTON Pedigree
Female

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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 12 DEC 1813 Hindley, Lancashire, England
Death:
Burial:

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Parents:
Father: HENRY PENNINGTON Family
Mother: CHATHRINE

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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C019951 1698 - 1814 0093745 Film 6904183 Film
C019951 1813 - 1839 0093747 Film NONE

Sheet: 00

Thank you for that. I am not familiar with Lancashire, but will see if I can confirm Ellen's who parents are.

It would be good to confirm Charles' parents as well - I think Charles was born c 1805 in Lancashire but the surname of Johnson is a popular one!

Could this be Ellen's baptism?


Baptisms: 17 Feb 1811 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Ellen Pinnington - Daur of Henry Pinnington & Elizth
Born: 23 Jan 1811
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Source: LDS Film 1657583

And the marriage

Marriage: 1 Feb 1830 St Mary The Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Charles Johnson - (X), Collier Bachelor of Sutton
Ellen Pinnington - (X), Spinster of Sutton
Witness: Peter Johnson, (X); Margaret Johnson, (X)
Married by Banns by: C G T Driffield Vicar
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1830, Page 299, Entry 896
Source: LDS Film 1657584

These are from

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search

Christine

If that is the correct baptism then these are siblings, no Catherine but she could have been married to one of Ellen's brothers by the time of the birth registration.

Baptisms: 27 Mar 1808 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Pinnington - Daughter of Henry Pinnington & Eliz.
Born: 28 Feb 1808
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 195, Entry 11
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8

Baptisms: 17 Feb 1811 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Ellen Pinnington - Daur of Henry Pinnington & Elizth
Born: 23 Jan 1811
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Source: LDS Film 1657583

Baptisms: 20 Jun 1813 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Henry Pinnington - Son of Henry Pinnington & Elizabeth
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: John Kirby
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1822, Page 15, Entry 120
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 10

Baptisms: 21 Jan 1816 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
John Pinnington - Son of Henry Pinnington & Elizabeth
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: CGT Driffield - Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1822, Page 90, Entry 719
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 10

Baptisms: 25 Sep 1818 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Mary Pinnington - Daughter of Henry Pinnington & Elizabeth
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: Wm. Vernon - Curate
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1822, Page 177, Entry 1409
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 10

Baptisms: 14 Sep 1821 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Thomas Pinnington - Son of Henry Pinnington & Elizabeth
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: E.C. Wilson - Curate
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1822, Page 273, Entry 2181
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 10

Baptisms: 8 Feb 1824 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Margaret Pinnington - Daur of Henry Pinnington & Elizabeth
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: Jno Cooper
Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1828, Page 54, Entry 430
Source: LDS Film 1657583

Christine

Possible for Charles

Baptisms: 1 Feb 1807 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Charles Johnson - Son of John Johnson & Ellen
Born: 10 Jan 1807
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Labourer
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 188, Entry 16
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8

Christine

Possible siblings of Charles, there is Peter and Peter Johnson was a witness at the marriage, so it looks as if it's the correct family

Baptisms: 7 Jun 1801 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Thomas Johnson - Son of John Johnson & Ellen
Born: 22 May 1801
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Labourer
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 161, Entry 24
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8

Baptisms: 22 Jan 1804 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Peter Johnson - Son of John Johnson & Ellen
Born: 29 Dec 1803
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Labourer
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 173, Entry 36
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8

Baptisms: 5 Nov 1809 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
John Johnson - Son of John Johnson & Ellen
Born: 18 Oct 1809
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Labourer
Register: Baptisms 1766 - 1809, Page 203, Entry 40
Source: LDS Film 1657583 item 8

Baptisms: 31 May 1812 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Robert Johnson - Son of John Johnson & Ellen
Born: 12 May 1812
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Labourer
Source: LDS Film 1657583

Christine

Christine,

Thank you so very much! I had a look on the website you mentioned, but don't seem to have got it totally weighed off like you have.

I am so totally amazed at all the information that you have found - thank you very, very much! You have certainly given me food for thought and action!

Regards

Rachel

Hi Rachel.

I have just realised that this is the same family that I was helping you with about Martha Runnington, who turned out to be Pinnington, so if that's the case then the baptism I posted for Ellen can't be the one.

I can't see a baptism for Ellen with parents Martha and Thomas though who are the names we thought were her parents.

It seems very confusing this family of Pinningtons, Penningtons.

Christine

Hi Christine,

I am not sure who Ellen's parents were. The post you gave with the baptism fits the dates; however, the name of the mother is not right (unless the mother had a middle name) - however the area is right.

I think the family of Pinningtons or Penningtons is extremely confusing.

I suppose one way to find out Ellen's parents would be to find out when Ellen died; and to see if she is buried; and to see if there is any inscription on her gravestone.....

Rachel

I have been investigating a bit more and come up with the following details.

1881 England Census
about Ellen Johnson
Name: Ellen Johnson
Age: 69
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Sutton, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Parr
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 1 Sots Hole
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Johnson 69
John Johnson 44


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3738; Folio: 120; Page: 22; Line:

Living next door but one is George Pinnington born 1820 Sutton and his wife Catherine. This could be the Catherine who was the informant on the birth cert.

I then found this marriage

Marriage: 6 Nov 1842 St Wilfrid, Farnworth near Prescot, Lancashire, England
George Pinnington - (X), of full age Collier Bachelor of Sutton
Catherine Appleton - (X), of full age Spinster of Sutton
Groom's Father: Thomas Pinnington
Bride's Father: John Appleton, Collier
<<< Witness: Charles Johnson, (X); Louisa Boldon?
Married by Banns by: John Leach, Curate
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1845, Page 164, Entry 328
Source: LDS Film 1655236 item 2

George must be the son of Thomas and Martha so possibly Ellen's brother but I can't find a baptism for either of them.

This is George in 1841, it was posted on the other thread

Martha Pennington
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Prescot
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub registration district: St Helen
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Pennington 21
John Pennington 13
Joseph Pennington 8
Martha Pennington 50
Martha Pennington 11
Thomas Pennington 54
Thomas Pennington 15

In 1851 George and Catherine were living next door to Thomas and Martha in Thatto Heath so possibly where young Charles was born in 1841.

Christine