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I am trying to find the birth of Henry Thomas Long

I have him on all the census and I also have the marriage cert
which reads

Marriage 25 December 1854 - age full - Bachelor - father Richard Long Occupation Orris Weaver

Wife Elizabeth Webb (according to the 1881 census born North Nibley Gloucestershire)

I am unable to find a birth that ties in with a Richard and Mary (Henry's mother according to a census return) as parents.

The area of the marriage is Westminister St Margarets and it would appear that the family always resided in these areas i.e. St Georges Hanovers Square, Pimilico, St Margaret

If you could help with the birth it would be really good.

The second query I have is that I have done a search for Richard based on census of 1861 giving age and worked back approximately give or take to 1780 I cannot find a birth or a marriage that I can confirm to a Mary.

That would also be very helpful trying to sort this out for a while now and eventually I suppose I will have to visit the archives.

Many thanks in advance

Regards Paula

Yes that is correct LFW and I know it says Henry is 20 and I also realise that registration did not start until 1837 but I have tried to find the birth for 1821 +/- repeatedly for these years and nothing that ties in with a father Richard and mother Mary unless of course Richard was not the father and just brought Henry up??

The other thing I have noticed with this family that they were all quite old when they married IF Richard was born in c1780 and never had Henry until 1821 that would make him 40 odd and Mary 39!

Henry sons Arthur never married in 1902 until he was 37


Regards Paula

Also wonderig if Lydia is the mother of Fanny although Fanny could be a visitor or neice or something does not give much info on that 1841 census

There would also appear to be a lot of Longs living in Francis Place around that time so it becomes a bit of a minefield especially if they
were visiting or something

Hi Paula

Yes I noticed the ages and it's not unheard of to marry late. Unfortunately the 1841 doesn't give relationships so it could be possible these are grandchildren or other relations. The only other birth I can see with a father Richard is parents Richard and Sarah and they are all together on the 1841. Have you found Richard or Marys death, the certificate might give some clues although I find the earlier ones don't always give much info.

Regards
LfW

Is there any change you could post the 1841 for Richard and Sarah just to have a look.

Yes I beleive Richard died in 1865 registerered in Westminister I suppose I should order that one.

The only thing with Deaths won't it just say who the informant was and not much more details??

I have not got any death certs yet only tended to order births and marriages.

Thanks for looking

Regards Paula

I have a 'sneeky' feeling that the Richard + Mary on 1841 will turn out to be grandparents !!

I haven't got time to search just now as I have to cook lunch but I have found this as a possible on 1851:

Richard Long
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Westminster, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Martin in The Fields
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: St Martin In The Fields
Sub registration district: Long Acre
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 230
Household Members: Name Age

Ann Long 39
Richard Long 49 - - Orris Weaver !!!

Living at 18 Mercers Street?

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1482; Folio: 70; Page: 50; GSU roll: 87807.

Source Information:

Perhaps you might like to follow this for a while and I will try to get back to it later?

Dea x

P.S. - I think that Ann was a second wife and his first wife MAY have been Lydia, so maybe wife no. 2 didn't want the children?

Sorry I can't follow it for you till later!

Dea x

Hi LFW I don't think this is the correct family. The one you posted first is the correct one.

In 1851 I have the census and also it shows Richard Long and Mary Long at 8 Emery Street (Richard, I believe, moved to Emery Hiills Almeshouse as per 1861 census) Mary had died by then.

The next address on the 1851 is 1 Francis Place

Henry is there together with Lydia anhd Catherine.
Henry is unmarried and there is also a Frederick Gay who is head and he is the Witness on the marriage cert of Henry to Elizabeth inh 1854, so this ties in nicely.

Nos. 9/10 Francis Street there are a whole loads of Longs all Orris Weavers.

Dea I know you said about being grandparents but I definietely have Richard down as the father on the marriage cert of 1854 for Henry

Thanks for looking I had better go and check my lunch now - probably burnt it -

Paula x

Yes, but I think Richard and Mary were grandparents - had a son called Richard (who married a Lydia), had the children, then married again to Ann, who didn't want them so were left with Richard + Mary! ???

Dea x

P.S. 'MY' lunch was GEORGEOUS !! - Did you manage to 'salvage' yours ? (Tee hee!)

Dea x

Henry's sister Lydia married Frederick Gay:

Marriages Mar 1848


Gay Frederick John St Saviour 4 451
Long Lydia Catherine St Saviour 4 451

Dea x

Hi Dea

Basically it looks as if I skipped a generation.

Have I got this correct.

Richard Long Snr married to Mary

Richard Long Jnr (1802) married to Ann
had Henry Thomas Long and any other children don't
know how many or who??

So infact I should be looking for Richard Long born 1802 father Richard and mother Ann?

Are you saying that Lydia was married to Richard Jnr before Ann - and the children and Lydia were living with Grandparents or visiting on the 1841 census.

I think you may have cracked it for me - its been driving me nuts for ages.

I also have a query regarding another member of the Longs but will post later as I don't want to get myself any more confused than I am already

Thanks Dea for your help

Paulax

PS My meal was also lovely. yum yum

Hang on - Hanven't had time to follow it through yet!!

Yes - I am saying you have missed a generation - I think there was Richard + Mary who had Richard, who was the father of Henry!.

I think Richard Jnr. married a Lydia and he had most of the children with her.

I think he then married Ann, who did not want the children and they were brought up by grandparents Richard + Mary (I think !!!...)

I think I have him on 1841 with Lydia and 1851 with Ann but we need to look for deaths and re-marriage etc.

Don't have a lot of time just now but can work on it if you wish.

Dea x

I would really appreciate it Dea hopefully will be in contact later logging off now for more food.

Regards and many thanks

Paula

Gawd... you DO like your food don't you ?? (Tee hee!!)

Dea x

There is this birth on the IGI:-

HENRY LONG
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 31 OCT 1827

Christening: 27 APR 1834 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone, London, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: RICHARD LONG
Mother: SARAH

I know the mother's name doesn't match your information, but I have had Sarah and Mary mixed up on my father's baptism record (his mother was Mary Jane, but the baptism record says Sarah!!)

UPDATE - sorry, I didn't read right through the thread before posting this.

Kath. x

Thank you Kath, but this one is too late - Thanks for input though !! There IS one on IGI but it is 'submitted' so cannot be trusted but it fits:

Henry Long, Birth/Christening, 1810 - 1830, England, British Isles

Father: Richard , Mother: Lydia
Spouse: Ann

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 2
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. Henry Long - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 17 JAN 1817 London, London, England

Dea x

Hi I am back for a while - not had food yet got sidetracked.

On Free bmd Lydia Gay deceased 1881

I checked the 1881 census for Fred and he is down as widowed so I think that is probably correct.

Thank you Kath for your input.

Dea the only thing is that all the births etc are before registration in 1837 so it looks as if to prove out I would need to go to the archives. That's a nuisance.

Could I add another query as mentioned before.

Richard Snr was born in Westminister according to records.

Henry Thomas Long (grandson) married Elizabeth Webb of North Nibley Gloucestershire.

I was wondering if I could make a connection between Richard Snr and Gloucestershire.

I went to the church in Nibley and there was a commemorative plaque on the wall regarding a George Long and is said he was born in Nibley in 1765 and died in Bristol...but it also said lived in Westminister for 40 years so am wondering wait for it........if this could be Richard Snrs father.

Thank you very much for your help

Paulax

If here was a commerorative plaque, this person must have been important within the Community?

I should try contacting the church in Nibley, or the local Library or History Society and asking for details on who this person was in order to try and connect.

Dea x

I think I tried that in the past but did not get very far!

Ah well it looks as if I might have to go to some of the Archives to try and sort this out.

So will be on hold for a while longer.

Thank you very much for all your help

No doubt we will speak again (if you get what I mean)

Paulax

I DO !!

I will try to find time to have a 'little look' tomorrow!

Best of luck,

Dea x