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Hi can one give me any dates for sarah cooper the daughter of thomas & mary cooper and i think there was anne and hannah markfield and dates for any other children like sarah as i havent got them .i know thomas was born 1781 barlestone leicester
many thanks
steve

Information, please!

How do you know the names of the children of Thomas and Mary Cooper? If you know the names, do you have approximate dates and places for them -- birth, marriage, census?

If we here have *all* the information you have, someone might be able to help find more. No point in people searching for what you already have!

This looks like it could be the source of some of your info, or match up with it. Remember that "1781" is an approximate date, meaning the person was born sometime from 1776 to 1781.

Name: Thomas Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1781
Where born: Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Markfield

Thomas Cooper 60
Mary Cooper 61
Joseph Cooper 6
Sarah Cooper 3

If those are your people ... if you search at

www.freebmd.org.uk

for Sarah Cooper, birth registered in Market Bosworth, Sept 1837 to Dec 1839 (for good measure), you will find one registered in March quarter 1838 -- a child who would have been 3 at the time of the 1841 census. That birth certificate would give the parents' names.

If the father was William and the mother Mary ... well, maybe not a sure bet, lol. I am a Cooper from the Basford area of Nottinghamshire nearby, and the number of Williams is rivalled only by the number of Sarahs and Hannahs.

But a good bet -- and it would give you Mary's surname and their fathers' names, at least in most cases.

The censuses (after 1841) show only 5 or so Coopers born in Barlestone, although mistranscriptions are likely -- all born 1820-1840ish. Likely related.

Steven has sent this info via PM, and since it won't help anybody help him as long as it stays in my inbox, I said I'd copy it here, and add a few spaces so it's readable for strangers.

----------------------------------------------------------------

my mothers family are coopers from here i have some of the info in front of me Charles cooper born 1801 markfield father Thomas mother mary batch number C044571 thomas cooper born 1781 charles es christening 23 march 1800 barlestone leicester when they came here they lived in stoney lane markfeild mary was 61 Charle s married Elizabeth geary 1830 thornton she born 1810 stanton under bardon

-------------------------------------------------------------

my mothers family are coopers from here

i have some of the info in front of me

Charles cooper born 1801 markfield
father Thomas
mother mary
batch number C044571

thomas cooper born 1781

charles es christening 23 march 1800 barlestone leicester

when they came here they lived in stoney lane markfeild

mary was 61

Charle s married Elizabeth geary 1830 thornton

she born 1810 stanton under bardon

-----------------------------------------------------

I hope I got that right.

Now anyone who might be able to help has some info to go on!

So we still don't know:

How do you know Thomas was born in 1781 in Barlestone?

Is the household I saw in 1841:

Thomas Cooper 60
Mary Cooper 61
Joseph Cooper 6
Sarah Cooper 3

yours? And foolish me -- those children are obviously grandchildren. I was not paying attention. Do you know whose children they are?

Marriages in Barlestone in the IGI:
batch M044571, 1757 - 1836

The only Cooper is

AMILEA COOPER
Spouse: WILLM. COATS
Marriage: 28 OCT 1808 Barlestone, Leicester, England


Barlestone christenings:
C044571, 1754-1876


1. RICHARD COOPER - Richard Cooper and Frances
Gender: Male Christening: 17 JUL 1825 Barlestone, Leicester, England
2. JOB COOPER - Richard Cooper and Sarah
Gender: Male Christening: 03 AUG 1783 Barlestone, Leicester, England
3. CHARLES COOPER - Thomas Cooper and Mary
Gender: Male Christening: 23 MAR 1800 Barlestone, Leicester, England
4. SAMUEL COOPER - Richard Cooper and Fanny
Gender: Male Christening: 16 AUG 1829 Barlestone, Leicester, England


Number 3 is not your Charles? It's the right batch number and info, but it's 1800, not 1801. I assume it's him.


Baptisms for Markfield:
C034671, 1571-1812
C034672, 1563-1853

Searching for Cooper in the first one:

ANN COOPER
Christening: 10 OCT 1802 Markfield, Leicester, England
Father: THOMAS COOPER
Mother: MARY

In the second batch:

HANNAH COOPER
Christening: 08 OCT 1832 Markfield, Leicester, England
Father: THOMAS COOPER
Mother: MARY

Now, I find this unlikely, that it would be your Thomas and Mary. Mary had a child in 1800. To have another 32 years later? Pretty fertile. The child of a daughter? A different Thomas and Mary?

JOSEPH COOPER
Christening: 05 JUN 1836 Markfield, Leicester, England
Mother: ANN COOPER

Daughter Ann born c1802 had her own child? This is evidently the Joseph in the household in 1841, a grandchild of Thomas and Mary.

CHARLOTTE COOPER
Christening: 24 JUN 1832 Markfield, Leicester, England
Mother: MARIA COOPER

Very probably the child of another daughter of Thomas and Mary, unless you know of other Coopers in the vicinity.


The trick you may not know and I am happy to pass on:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/
IGIBatchNumbers/CountryEngland.htm#PageTitle

(You will have to paste that back together.)

Hugh Wallis's great collection of the batch numbers in the IGI. You can search by county and parish, find the batch number, then use it in the search form for the IGI with only a surname, only a given name, only a parent's name, or nothing at all, to see the baptisms or marriages in the batch.

Those are all I'm coming up with for Barlestone and Markfield, but hopefully there's something of interest there.

Someone has submitted this (i.e. it is completely unverified) to the IGI:

Thomas COOPER
Birth: About 1810 Markfield, Leicester, England
Marriages:
Spouse: Mary
Marriage: About 1831 , Leicester, England


Is someone guessing at your Thomas and Mary, or could this be a child of theirs?

This could be your Mary in 1851, with a son Thomas not born c1810:

Name: Mary Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1778
Relation: Mother
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Markfield

Name: Thomas Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Mary
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England


If that is your Mary -- and there is no other similar Mary in 1841 -- then son Thomas was elsewhere in 1841. In 1851 he is unmarried.

Btw, the birth certificate for Sarah Cooper 1837 would give you the name of a child of Thomas and Mary -- she is a grandchild.

Hi Eveie
My mother is linda cooper born 1941 markfield her father was Ernest Cooper born 1907, dec
19th Market bosworth
wife of ernest
Constance lily deacon born 1909
father of joseph cooper 1838 markfield wife of joseph mary ellen cooper 1878
Charles cooper 1801 Markfeild
son of charles, john charles junior 1836
wife of Charles ,Elizabeth geary born stanton 1810
Father of charles. Thomas cooper 1781 barlestone leicester
wife of thomas, mary 1841
son of thomas james1848
i found thomas on the igi .
Daughter of Elizbeth geary,
Alice geary 1833
Abraham cooper1840
Caleb 1842
just needed a single date for sarah
steve

Eveie
the charles cooper 23 mar 1800 is the one that i am after he was in barlestone , and his parents were thomas and mary
but on the igi i couldnt find any children for them
Thanks
steve

Hi evie
i have my aunts marriage cert in front of me
amy cooper 29 years old father joseph cooper blacksmith .she marriedlewis anderson 43 years old date 21st sept 1931 in the presents of George cooper and mabel e cooper married in gegister office .lewises fatehr james anderson .also i have my grandfathers marriage in front of me again father joseph cooper blacksmth
Address 12 ashby rd markfeild so these must be the right family all else my mother would not have been born .i have the tree on here as well for people to look at . my mother married colin woolman hugglescote coalville .my mother married 17th sept 1960residence of marriage 98 main st markfield.her father was a miner
steve

Hi Steven. Let's not confuse matters with 20th century folk!

But -- have you actually traced your line back from your grandfather Joseph Cooper the blacksmith to the Coopers in Markfield in the early 1800s? Each step of the way, no leaps?


Many Joseph Coopers in Markfield in 1901 -- grandfather, father and son?

Here are father (your great-grandfather?) and son.

Name: Joseph Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Spouse's Name: Mary E
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Markfield
address: The Green

George Cooper 4
John C Cooper 11 months
Joseph Cooper 26 - blacksmith
Joseph A Cooper 2 --- your grandfather??
Mary E Cooper 23


Okay, Joseph Cooper born c1875 -- in 1881 his mother Mary is a widow and a nurse.

James Cooper 7
Joseph Cooper 6
Mary Cooper 46

So the Joseph Cooper in 1901 who was born c1838 in Markfield is not that Joseph's father, my assumption was wrong.

Here is Joseph born c1875 with his mother in 1891:

Mary Ann Cooper 53
Joseph Cooper 16

The only (possible) marriage of a Cooper to a Mary in Market Bosworth between 1871 and 1875 -- assuming Mary was a widow and not unmarried -- was:

Marriages Dec 1872
* BROOKS Mary Ann Mt.Bosworth 7a 181
* Cooper Abraham Mt. Bosworth 7a 181
Cramp Sarah Emma Mt Bosworth 7a 181
MERCHANT Charles Mt.Bosworth 7a 181


This looks to be Abraham in 1861:

Name: Abraham Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Servant
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Ulverscroft
County/Island: Leicestershire

So unfortunately, we can't see him in a census with a wife. This could be his death (it's the closest by age):

Deaths Mar 1876
Cooper Abraham age 39 Leicester 7a 172


This is his household in 1841:

Charles Cooper 40
Elizth Cooper 31
Allice Cooper 8
John C Cooper 5
Joseph Cooper 3
Abraham Cooper 11 Mo

So yes, it looks like Charles Cooper c1801 is his father.


This is Charles in 1851:

Name: Charles Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Markfield

Abraham Cooper 10
Alice Geary Cooper 17
Caleb Cooper 8
Charles Cooper 50
Charles Cooper 7 Mo
Elizabeth Cooper 41
James Cooper 2
Joseph Cooper 13
William Cooper 5

The only other Coopers in Markfield in 1851 are:

Mary Cooper 73 - mother
Thomas Cooper 29


This doesn't look anything like what is in your post stamped Today at 14:21.

I'm afraid I just can't follow what's in that post, though.

Trying to sort it out:

Charles cooper 1801 Markfeild
son of charles, john charles junior 1836

Okay, that's John C Cooper in the 1841 household. Is HE the father of Joseph Cooper, your great-grandfather?? -- Nope, he is alive and kicking in Markfield in 1891:

John Cooper 55
Martha Cooper 63

... ... ... ...

There were two children of Thomas and Mary in the IGI besides Charles:

ANN COOPER
Christening: 10 OCT 1802 Markfield, Leicester, England
Father: THOMAS COOPER
Mother: MARY

-- this suggests that they moved to Markfield between 1800 and 1802, and Charles probably assumed he was born in Markfield.

HANNAH COOPER
Christening: 08 OCT 1832 Markfield, Leicester, England
Father: THOMAS COOPER
Mother: MARY

-- and I still find it hard to believe that Mary was having children at the age of 50+. Her son Thomas was born around 1822, according to the 1851 census -- or maybe *he* was a grandson -- so he couldn't have been the father. I suspect Thomas and Mary were covering for daughter Ann, who seems to have had a son in 1836:

JOSEPH COOPER
Christening: 05 JUN 1836 Markfield, Leicester, England
Mother: ANN COOPER

And there is also the Sarah Cooper in the 1841 census in their household, born 1837.


So now you have posted:

"just needed a single date for sarah"

-- but you have not said anything that indicates there *was* a Sarah!! I just don't understand who she is, who she belongs to, and why you think Thomas and Mary had a daughter Sarah born, presumably, sometime in the early 1800s!


Aargh, just to complicate it -- in 1861:

Name: Thomas Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Bardon
County/Island: Leicestershire

Sarah Cooper 20
Thomas Cooper 30
Thomas Cooper 10 Mo

-- who has to be a grandson ...

and I am out of space for this post ... and still confused.

Your grandfather was only 3 years older than mine. Your mother got married in 1960, so you're younger than me by a lot! Surely you can organize this up a bit better!

Just a straight line going back.

Joseph Cooper born abt 1899 - your grandfather
Joseph Cooper born abt 1875 - your great-grandfather
and then ...??

And who is Sarah?????

Aargh. I thought I'd sorted the very first bit out, but it seems not.


1. My mother is linda cooper born 1941 markfield her father was Ernest Cooper born 1907

2. i have my aunts marriage cert in front of me
amy cooper 29 years old father joseph cooper blacksmith .she marriedlewis anderson 43 years old date 21st sept 1931

3. also i have my grandfathers marriage in front of me again father joseph cooper blacksmth


These statements just do not go together.

Your aunt married in 1931, and your mother married in 1960? I'm back to what I was first thinking and then thought I was wrong -- Amy has to be your *great* aunt, no?

Births Sep 1902
Cooper Amy Mt. Bosworth 7a 74


Your aunt's father was Joseph, and your mother's father was Ernest?

Births Mar 1908 (registered early 1908)
Cooper Ernest Mt. Bosworth 7a 68



Your grandfather was Ernest. Your grandfather's father was Joseph -- Joseph born c1875, the blacksmith.

And then -- I get lost. His mother was Mary.


This is reminding me of one of those puzzles.

Mr. Green drives a Volkswagen.
Mr. White owns a camel and eats ice cream.
Mr. Black is an architect who likes to travel.
Who lives in Albania?
... And who is Sarah?


I'm sorry, Steven! but I really am at sea here.

Hi eveie
i just come line and seen what you have sent me all those names are right . what i have found is a sarah Elizabeth belonging to Hannah cooper 1837 .Hannah married Charles clapham in 1839 sept 8th he was a labourer Markfeild.
now what iam thinking is charles cooper 1801 his father thomas had dead and left a son thomas in 1852 i have found a thomas cooper married to a Ann arnold both full age .thomas bacholer ann spinister thomas was a labourer .dte of marriage 1852 nov 29th
marriage in the presents of Charle clapham
Hannah clapham.
can i just confuse things a bit more mary ellen cooper was orginally a massey but no father for her what has been told to me tonight is he was some high up with money and he had left ?my aunt amy had a siter called evelyn she was born 1904
hus-len oxford married oct 15th 1927.len came from ellistown leicestershire.
Charles cooper died april 5th 1889 aged 88.
charles 1
john charles cooper married Sarah may cooper 1922 march 14th john was 21
sarah 21
Father of sarah cooper james cooper quarrymen
in the presents of joseph cooper and charles Ernest cooper
curate /vicar
J.H hambers m.a
also i think this is a burial for sarh 1870 markfeild may 12th age 39 years old
rector A.s bates
steve

I'm probably going to give up just to stop my head from spinning, lol, but ...


"i just come line and seen what you have sent me all those names are right . what i have found is a sarah Elizabeth belonging to Hannah cooper 1837 ."

-- so she would be the Sarah who is in the household with Thomas and Mary in 1841.

Thomas Cooper 60
Mary Cooper 61
Joseph Cooper 6
Sarah Cooper 3

Thomas and Mary were not dead in 1841. The IGI says that Sarah's mother is Ann, but you should get her 1837 birth certificate. Ann can be a variation of Hannah.


"Hannah married Charles clapham in 1839 sept 8th he was a labourer Markfeild."

-- Okay.


"now what iam thinking is charles cooper 1801 his father thomas had dead and left a son thomas in 1852 "

-- You mean: Thomas died in 1852, and he had a son Thomas - ?

The son = son Thomas born abt 1822, living with Mary in 1851.

Six Thomas Coopers died in Market Bosworth between the 1841 and 1851 censuses. Mary was a widow in 1851, so Thomas Sr. could not have died in 1852.


"in 1852 i have found a thomas cooper married to a Ann arnold both full age .thomas bacholer ann spinister thomas was a labourer .dte of marriage 1852 nov 29th marriage in the presents of Charle clapham Hannah clapham."

-- Aargh. I see. the "in 1852" belongs here. Steve, you must have been introduced to punctuation at some time in your life!

So Hannah Cooper Clapham was Thomas's sister.

Here are Hannah and Charles Clapham in 1841 in Markfield:

Charles Claphan 20
Hannah Claphan 20
Mary Claphan 1


"i have found a thomas cooper married to a Ann arnold both full age .thomas bacholer ann spinister thomas was a labourer .dte of marriage 1852 nov 29th
marriage in the presents of Charle clapham Hannah clapham."

-- This was in Markfield?

Does it give Thomas's father's name?

Does it give Ann Arnold's father's name? With that, we could find her in the 1851 or 1841 census and get her birth date and place, to help find Thomas and Ann later. I'm not seeing them in 1861.

Did Thomas remarry before 1861 and then lie about his age because his wife was young enough to be his daughter??

Name: Thomas Cooper
stimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England
Civil Parish: Bardon

(There is no Thomas Cooper born abt 1831 in Markfield in the 1841 or 1851 censuses.)

Name: Sarah Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England

Sarah Cooper 20
Thomas Cooper 30
Thomas Cooper 10 Mo


"can i just confuse things a bit more mary ellen cooper was orginally a massey but no father for her"

-- I dont even know what generation we are talking about here!

Because I never did figure out what this meant:

"father of joseph cooper 1838 markfield wife of joseph mary ellen cooper 1878"

-- the wife of Joseph Cooper born abt 1838 was Mary Ellen Cooper/Massey?

Joseph Cooper was actually born abt 1835 according to the 1841 census.

... No, no, that can't be it. This is the 1901 census:

Name: Joseph Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Spouse's Name: Mary E

Mary Ellen was the wife of Joseph Cooper born abt 1875.

Did you mean to say:

"father (not father OF) joseph cooper 1838 markfield
wife of joseph mary ellen cooper 1878" ?

But --- I thought I had figured out that Joseph Cooper 1838 could not be the father of Joseph Cooper 1875 ...

The mother of Joseph born 1875 is a widow in 1881, and Joseph born 1838 is living with his wife Ann:

Ann Cooper 42
Jane Cooper 19
John William Cooper 15
Joseph Cooper 43

... Right. Joseph 1875 married ME Massey:

Marriages Jun 1896
Cooper Joseph Mt. Bosworth 7a 164
Massey Mary Ellen Mt. Bosworth 7a 164

An Ernest Cooper married a Massey too, in 1927:

COOPER Ernest Massey Mt Bosworth 7a 212


I have to start another message.

"what has been told to me tonight is he was some high up with money and he had left ?my aunt amy had a siter called evelyn"

-- I just can't figure out this Aunt Amy. Is she your grandfather's sister? Or your father's sister or your mother's sister? If she had a sister Evelyn, then wasn't Evelyn your grandfather's sister, or your father's sister or your mother's sister?

"she was born 1904 hus-len oxford married oct 15th 1927.len came from ellistown leicestershire."

-- Okay. I really just have no idea what this is about!

"Charles cooper died april 5th 1889 aged 88.
charles 1"

-- What does "charles 1" mean? He was the first Charles? He was the son of Thomas and Mary, right:


"john charles cooper married Sarah may cooper 1922 march 14th john was 21
sarah 21"

-- Again: I don't know who these people are, and how they relate to Charles who died in 1889. There's a (John) Charles Cooper born way back in 1850ish, son of Charles 1801.


"Father of sarah cooper james cooper quarrymen
in the presents of joseph cooper and charles Ernest cooper
curate /vicar
J.H hambers m.a"

-- Sorry. Are you trying to find out who those people are?


"also i think this is a burial for sarh 1870 markfeild may 12th age 39 years old
rector A.s bates"

Aha. That one makes sense -- the Sarah Cooper in the 1861 census, wife of Thomas whose age is all off, born abt 1841.

(It could be the Sarah who was born in 1838, who has to be a granddaughter of Thomas and Mary, having never married.)


Is this what you have been trying to figure out?? Who the Sarah who died in 1870 was?

This is the Sarah I think it was, in the 1861 census:

Name: Sarah Cooper
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England

Name: Thomas Cooper
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 (it should be abt 1822!)
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Where born: Markfield, Leicestershire, England
Occupation: Farmer 150 acres
Civil Parish: Bardon
Ecclesiastical parish: Copt Oak
Registration District: Loughborough

with son Thomas 10 months born in Bardon


And that could be one of these marriages:

Marriages Mar 1856
Brooks Sarah M Bosworth 7a 125
COOPER Thomas Mt Bosworth 7a 125

Marriages Dec 1855
COOPER Thomas Loughbro' 7a 325
POTTER Sarah Loughbro 7a 325

(In both cases the Cooper did not necessarily marry the Sarah.)

I can't spot a Sarah Potter or Brooks in 1841 or 1851 to match. The fathers' names from the marriage certificates would be needed.

And Thomas, Sarah and young Thomas from 1861 all seem to have disappeared by 1871.

Oh, well, here's the answer to which Sarah that Thomas married:

Births Jun 1860
Cooper Thomas Brooks Loughbro' 7a 133

Brooks. So the marriage certificate should hopefully sort out whether the Thomas who married Sarah Brooks, who was in the 1861 census in Bardon, was your Thomas son of Thomas and Mary.

Two Thomas Cooper deaths in Loughborough district 1861-1871:

Deaths Jun 1863
COOPER Thomas Loughbro 7a 86
COOPER Thomas Josiah Loughbro 7a 85

and three in Market Bosworth:

Deaths Dec 1863
Cooper Thomas M.Bosworth 7a 55

Deaths Dec 1867
Cooper Thomas aged 73 Mt. Bosworth 7a 40

Deaths Mar 1870
Cooper Thomas aged 47 Mt. Bosworth 7a 50

The last one looks like probably your Thomas, actually born around 1822, and died just weeks or months before the Sarah Cooper who died in May 1870.

What was the cause of death for the Sarah who died 1870? Is there any mention of a family member as the informant, or address, etc.? Since you have a burial certificate I guess it doesn't say. You would need the death certificate.


I wonder whether any of this makes sense to anybody ... !!!!!

Okay, Okay. I may be figuring out what you are trying to find out.


"john charles cooper married Sarah may cooper
1922 march 14th
john was 21
sarah 21"

--- >> This must mean *1822*, not 1922.
Does it mean 1822??

"Father of sarah cooper james cooper quarrymen
in the presents of joseph cooper and charles Ernest cooper"

"also i think this is a burial for sarh 1870 markfeild may 12th age 39 years old"


Okay.

The Sarah Cooper who married in 1822 (if that is what you meant, not 1922) can NOT be the Sarah buried in 1870, who was 39 at the time.

39 in 1870 means born about 1830.

The Sarah who married John Charles Cooper was born about 1800.

Sarah Brooks (I think) who married Thomas Cooper in 1856 was born in about 1840.

Btw: I just looked back at the 1861 census and that Sarah's brother and his wife were in the same household: Joseph and Susannah Brooks.

This is the family in 1841, in Markfield:

James Brooks 30
Dorothy Brooks 30
>> Sarah Brooks 8 = born abt 1833
Joseph Brooks 6
Mary Brooks 4
Eliza Brooks 1 6 Mo

So ... when it says she is 20 in 1861, it is way off. She is 28. Somebody just guessed at Thomas being 30 and Sarah being 20 in 1861, it looks like.

So ... even though I did the arithmetic wrong (if she was 20 in 1861, she was 29 in 1870, not 39), I still think that is the right Sarah. She was born abt 1832-33, according to the 1841 census. So she was 38ish in 1870.

1. SARAH BROOKS - James and Dorothy
Christening: 01 MAY 1832 Markfield, Leicester, England
2. SARAH BROOKS - James and Dorothy
Christening: 17 FEB 1833 Markfield, Leicester, England

Looks like they lost the first one and had a second.

So I still think that was your Thomas son of Thomas and Mary, who married Sarah Brooks daughter of James and Dorothy, and that was the Sarah who died in 1870.

All of which would have to be checked against certificates!


Just for reminder, these are the Cooper births in the same batch of Markfield parish as Sarah Brooks:

1. JOSEPH COOPER - mother Ann Cooper
Christening: 05 JUN 1836 Markfield, Leicester, England
2. CHARLOTTE COOPER - mother Maria Cooper
Christening: 24 JUN 1832 Markfield, Leicester, England
3. HANNAH COOPER - parents Thomas Cooper and Mary
Christening: 08 OCT 1832 Markfield, Leicester, England


Joseph Cooper 1835-38ish was the son of Ann Cooper, not of Thomas and Mary or any of their sons.

And I still refuse to believe that Hannah Cooper 1832 was the son of Thomas and Mary, who would have been over 50 at the time.

But here's me, muddled again.

Charles Cooper born abt 1801 married an Elizabeth. This is them in 1841 in Markfield:

Charles Cooper 40
Elizth Cooper 31
Allice Cooper 8
John C Cooper 5
Joseph Cooper 3 -- born abt 1838
Abraham Cooper 11 Mo

That's a different Joseph Cooper from the one in Thomas and Mary's household, who is likely their grandson, son of Ann.

Which one is it who is still living in 1881 when Joseph 1875's mother Mary is widowed??

Hi evie
my aunt amy was the daughter of joseph cooper my grandads father also evelyn.
lewis anderson who married amy his father came from midlothian scotland he came here to work . his name was james anderson
steve