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Been searching for ages. Marriage certificate (2nd marriage) says father is Peter, a Quarryman. Census in 1881 and 1891 say born Flintshire (Llanasa). Only one John with father Peter in 1851, widower, siblings William 15, Maria 14, Hannah 7, Thomas 5 and Mary 50, sister of Peter.

Found same family in 1861 and 1871, but no sign in 1841.

Ordered several birth certs for John, none with father Peter.

No sign of John's first marriage.

Anyone any ideas what to do next? The records office at Hawarden have done their best and a family relative has visited them and found nothing.

Margaret

I just keep wondering if sons William & John got mistakenly reversed in this one.

1841 Wales Census
Name: Peter Davies
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Whitford
Hundred: Coleshill
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales
Street address: Nant
Occupation: collier
Registration district: Holywell
Sub registration district: Whitford
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Name
Elizabeth Davies 70 [mother??]
Mary Davies 35 [sister??]
Peter Davies 30
Anne Davies 30
John Davies 5
Maria Davies 3
William Davies 5 Mo

I can't find John in 1881. Where is he or who is he with? Also where is he in 1861 & 1871?

I just wonder about your 1851/61 family as it says Peter is a collier, wheras the marriage cert says quarryman. A fine line, I know.

Ozi.

1841

Name: John Davies
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Gender: Male
Where born: Flintshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Whitford
Hundred: Coleshill
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Holywell
Sub registration district: Whitford
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Name
Elizabeth Davies 70
Mary Davies 35
Peter Davies 30
Anne Davies 30
John Davies 5
Maria Davies 3
William Davies 5 Mo




maybe he lied abt his age



same family as 1851


June x

1891 for ref

Name: John Davis
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Llonasa, Flintshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Glossop
Ecclesiastical parish: Whitfield
Town: Whitfield
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Hayfield
Sub registration district: Glossop
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Davis 50
Margaret Davis 53
Annie Davis 18
Maggie Davis 13
Mary Davis 9





June x

Hi, the idea that William and John have been switched is the best guess yet, thanks. How would that happen?

Yes to the person who found him in Glossop, that is him.

1841 a distinct possibility.

No sign of him in 1861, 71 or 81. He is married to his first wife at some point, but no idea who she is or when she died. I guess she died around 1890 cos that is when he married my g grandma despite already having 3 children by her.

Thanks all.

Margaret

1881 England Census
Name: John Davies
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Funt, Wales
Civil Parish: Glossop Dale
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street address: Wilsons Terrace

Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Stonemason

Registration district: Hayfield
Sub registration district: Glossop
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Davies 40
Margaret Davies 42
John Thos. Fish 19 - step son
James Fish 17- step son
William Fish 16 - step son
Alexander Fish 13 - step son
Annie Fish 8 - step daughter
Llewelyn Davies 5
Margaret Davies 3


So, this one????
Marriages Dec 1890
Davies John Stockport 8a 36
Dean Caroline Stockport 8a 36
Fish Margaret Stockport 8a 36
GREEN Ann Stockport 8a 36
JACKSON William Stockport 8a 36

1871 England Census
Name: Margeret Fish
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Richard
Gender: Female
Where born: Ribchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Glossop
Ecclesiastical parish: Whitfield
Town: Glossop
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street address: Dinting Lane

Occupation:

Registration district: Hayfield
Sub registration district: Glossop
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 78
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Fish 33
Margeret Fish 32
John Thomas Fish 9
James Fish 7
William Fish 6
Alexander Fish 3
Albert Fish 4 months

1861 Wales Census
me: Peter Davies
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitford, Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Whitford
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image
Registration district: Holywell
Sub registration district: Whitford
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 51
Household Members:
Name Age
Peter Davies 56
William Davies 25
Hannah Davies 18
Thomas Davies 14
Mary Twist 60 - cousin

Thanks all. Yes, John Davies married Margaret Fish in Stockport (both widower/widow), and they lived in Glossop as a married couple both before and after their marriage. I knew all that. They didn't marry till 1890 by which time they had 3 children, so I am guessing that John's first wife was still alive until about then, so he couldn't marry Margaret. Her first husband, Richard Fish, died in 1873.

I also have a complete history of Margaret Fish, nee Duxbury of Lancashire. It is Johh Davies (Davis?) who is a mystery.

I have a birth cert for John, with father Peter a collier. I need someone from Wales to tell me that this is the same as a Quarryman. But I have no other ideas.

All help and thoughts greatly appreciated.

Margaret

Quarryman and collier are different occupations. There were several kinds of quarryman in Wales at that time - quarrying slate for roofing, etc; limestone for iron making and stone of various kinds for housebuilding, etc. The last of these could also be masons.

The coal mines were major employers of labour and 'collier' could include a number of trades. Many men turned to the coal mines at some point in their lives and had other occupations as well. Agricultural labourers might go to the coal mines for the winter and return to the farm for the harvest. Many north Wales quarrymen became colliers during long strikes in the quarries - but this was much later than the period you are concerned with.

Many of my own relatives are described as colliers, coal hewers, timbermen, hauliers and the like in one census, grocers, innkeepers, etc in the next and colliers again in the following census. In the north and south Wales coalfields there's nothing unusual about switching occupations as the coal mines could accommodate a lot of non-specialist labour and would often be keen to take on labour when demand for other trades was slack.

Hope this helps - good luck with your research. Davieses are about as common as coal in Wales!

Gareth, yes a collier is not a quarryman, and John was a stone mason.
Appreciate the difference now.

Today I have trawled through the 1841 and 1851 census records and there is no Peter with a son John, where Peter is a quarryman. I despair. Did he make up the name Peter? I think not if he was married twice. But I cannot find a first marriage either. John is a stone mason on his marriage to Margaret Fish. I am happy with the Glossop lot, got loads of connections and even know where they are buried. It is the ealier life of John Davies I am stuck with.

Any more help gratefullly received. I have tried other possible parents of John in the hope that they were quarrymen, but no luckl

Thanks all.

Margaret