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Could I ask for a little help in finding Ann Davies born abt 1853 in St Ishmaels, Carmenthenshire.

I know that she married George Hopes in 1875 in Swansea, she gives her father as Thomas Davies, a Mason. Witness's are William and Gertrude Bevan. They marry at the St Peter's Chapel on the 16th May.

I have her in the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census, with her husband and various children. She seems to be pretty consistent with her age and her place of birth, but I am having trouble trying to locate her prior to her marriage. My heart sank when the marriage cert gave her father as Thomas, but I did think that being a mason, he would be relatively easy to find, but no luck as yet!, could someone else take a look and see if you can find anything.

Note: there are several GR members that have Ann Davies marrying George, but none of them seem to have been brave enough to find Ann' parents- maybe I am being stupid rather than brave in trying to find her.

Many many thanks to anyone who takes a look.

Spiral

St Ishmaels is in Pembrokeshire,

this is the only one i can find but dad is a coal miner

1871?
Name: Ann Davies
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Female
Where born: St Isnela, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llanwonno
Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
Town: Mountain Ash
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub registration district: Pontypridd
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 569
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Davies 60
Hannah Davies 58
Ann Davies 20
Thomas Allen 24
William Davies 18


Roy

Porkie Pie
Sorry my Welsh Geography isn't that good, I have googled it, and St Ismaels is now in Dyfed?. I wonder if the borders changed a lot?
Ann is always consistant with her place of birth and always gives it as Carmenthenshire.
From Miner to Mason is a bit of a jump isn't it, if this is the right one.
As I don't know any of her siblings I have nothing else to go, but will keep looking.
Thanks for your help anyway

Spiral, Sorry I was wrong, Their is also a St Ishmaels in Carmenthenshire

their is this family in 1871
Name: Ann Davies
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Female
Where born: St Ishmael, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llanelly
Town: Glyn
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Country: Wales
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Llanelly
Sub registration district: Llannon
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
David Davies 42
Jane Davies 45
Margaret Davies 17
Jane Davies 16
Ann Davies 14
Evan Davies 13
William Davies 11
Elizabeth Davies 8
Ellen Davies 5
John Davies 3
Mary Davies 18 months
James Evans 23

but wrong father

Roy

Roy
I now see why no one else investigating this line has bothered to track down Ann's parentage and gone for the easy option of the Hopes instead!

I thought I may track down her birth cert, but have you seen how many Ann Davies wher born in Carmenthenshire around 1853????????- I could spend a years wages trying to track her down that way.

Her marriage cert doesn't say that Thomas is deceased, but I have learnt that this doesn't mean an awful lot.

I will certainly bear in mind the 1871 census that you have kindly found for me, just incase we can't find anything else- whoever said that tracing the family tree was easy- I think WDYTYA should put a health warning on their next lot of programmes!

Spiral

There is this from the LDS but it is a submited entry (not very reliable) and not taken from parish records

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print
Anne Davies Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth: About 1852 Saint Ishmael, Carmarthen, Wales

Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: Phillip Davies Family
Mother: Maria Jones

She could have lied on her marriage cert about her father?

Roy

Roy
I found the IGI record a while ago, and when I ordered her marriage cert I was half expecting the fathers name to be Philip, sadly it said Thomas!

I wonder if there was a Philip Davies - Mason?

Spiral

That Phillip Davies on the 1861/71 census occupation is a Tailor

Roy

That's dashed that idea then!

I am sure that when I was looking earlier I found and Ann Davies with a father Thomas who was a Quarryman, which would be a more believable step to Mason, but I can't find it now- typical!!!

I think i have got them, dad is a Mason and next door is a william Davies that is a Mason and Fisherman

1851
Name: Thomas Davies
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: St Ishmael
Ecclesiastical parish: Broadlay
Town: Carmarthen
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Occupation: View Image
Disability: View Image
Registration district: Carmarthen
Sub registration district: Llangendeirne
ED, institution, or vessel: 6a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 53
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Davies 35
Mary Davies 31
John Davies 10
Mary Davies 8
Arthur Davies 6
Thomas Davies 3
Anne Davies 3 Mo

Roy

Just to add, the Ann 3 month old on the 1851 could? be your Ann, or that Ann died and their next child named as Ann,

there are half a dozen Ann Davies deaths registered between the 1851 census and 1853 in that registration district

Roy

Roy
Well that certainly looks good to me!, she must have lied about her age (a common theme in my female ancestors!). Though her marriage cert does say she was 23 when she got married, but in the census reports she always appears to be 2 years younger than her husband

So where are the little so and so's in the 1861 & 1871 I wonder?

Thanks ever so much
Spiral

1861

Name: Thomas Davies
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: St Ishmael
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Carmarthen
Sub registration district: Llangendeirne
ED, institution, or vessel: 25b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Davies 46
Mary Davies 41
John Davies 20
Arthur Davies 14
Thomas Davies 12
Anne Davies 10
Margret Davies 6


Roy

Roy
Thanks for the 1861, had just managed to locate that one myself.
Now I have the task of finding who her mother was- don't rate my chances of a Thomas Davies marrying a Mary!

Thanks again for all your help, you have been wonderful
Spiral

Possible clue to who Thomas married?

1841
Name: Thomas Davies
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Carmarthenshire, Wales

Civil Parish: St Ishmael
Hundred: Kidwelly
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Country: Wales

Street address:
Occupation: Mason

Registration district: Carmarthen
Sub registration district: Llangendeirne
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Name
Thomas Davies 25
Mary Davies 20
John Davies 3 Mo

On the actual image their is a Margaret Arthur born abt 1786 living with them, Could this be Mary's mother, I wonder if this is their marriage,

Name: Mary Arthur
Year of Registration: 1840
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Carmarthen
County: Carmarthenshire, Dyfed, Pembrokeshire
Volume: 26
Page: 807

Name: Thomas Davies
Year of Registration: 1840
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Carmarthen
County: Carmarthenshire, Dyfed, Pembrokeshire
Volume: 26
Page: 807

I got to go now, will check this later

Roy

Roy
Thanks ever so much for staying with me....

I have been having a poke about myself and do wonder if I have just managed to confuse myself even further.

I have managed to find an Ann Davies in the 1871 census, with a father Thomas, who just happens to be a Stone Mason, but the ages are a bit wrong, Ann gives her age as 19, and the father appears to be born 1825 in Glamorgan, not Carmenthenshire.

I don't know whether to ignore this or not, On her marriage cert Ann is certainly residing in Swansea, though no address given, and with their marriage being in May, its only a few months after the 1871 census was taken. I have found in other areas of my tree that then census reports can get ages wildy wrong (had one ancestor who was 10 years older then he should be-only managed to confirm this by the address and ages of the children- ha) Again with other ancestors they have stretched the truth a bit when getting hitched and said they were much older than they actually where- usually because the bride was heavily pregnant.

Roy- what do you think?

Spiral

I take it that this is the 1881 census that you are working from

Name: Ann Hopes
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: St Ishmael, Carmarthenshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Neath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street address: 21 Henery Street
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Foreman Of Platelayers On Railways Wife

Registration district: Neath
Sub registration district: Neath
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Hopes 30
Ann Hopes 28
Thomas Hopes 4
Elizabeth Hopes 3
Henry Hopes 1
Henry Hopes 19
John Hopes 10

and this is the 1871 that has got you confused

Name: Ann Davies
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Swansea
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Swansea
Sub registration district: Llangyfelach
ED, institution, or vessel: 12b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 173
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Davies 46
Elizabeth Davies 47
Jane Davies 23
Ann Davies 19
William Davies 17
Sarah Davies 14

My gut feeling is that If the info from the 1881/1891/1901 census's are consistant and you got the marriage cert info then the ann born: St Ishmael, Carmarthenshire is the one you need to follow

Roy

this could be Ann in 1871?

Name: Ann Davies
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Nk, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llanwrtyd
Town: Llanddmadog
County/Island: Breconshire
Country: Wales
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Llandovery
Sub registration district: Llanwrtyd
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 24
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Williams 33
Sarah Williams 30
Ann Davies 20

Roy