Find Ancestors

Yes, sorry it is Milford. There was a Canadian base there it seems.

As I have not been able to trace anything about Kitty Eilleen Blay I wondered if she was attached to the Canadian forces, but it seems she was not a Canadian nursing sister.

There are some Blays in Ireland so I wondered if she came from there?

I wouldn't know how to check this, though.

Just read through this thread.

Twice "Mitford" is mentioned, is this meant to be Milford, a small village between Godalming and Witley on the "old A3", it does have a St Johns Church in the centre of the village. Hope this is useful to you. J.

Thanks Mrs G.

I will order his records. I have already got his son, Charles' records. I have already got his attestation records. He was attested twice.

I have not found Kitty on any census. There is a Caroline E Blay on the 1901 aged 7, but it seems she is Caroline Elizabeth.

Marriage cert says.

14 November 1917, Charles Kenneth Alexander Palmer, (Both times this name is altered to Keneth with one N crossed out and initialled R.N.) age 27 Bachelor, Rank Signaller, B Co. 164 Bn, CEF. Residence Mitford, Father, Ernest Palmer, Farmer.

Kitty EileenBlay, Age 26, Spinster. Residence Chertsey Surrey, Father Frank Blay, dec'd

Married in St John's Parish Church, Mitford, by license, by me C.H. Brulden, Chaplain CEF.

Witnesses: Henry T Pulfer, Hilda Constance Payne.

I have Charles on the 1891, 1901 British and 1911 Canadian censuses, but I can't find the Blays.

Have you found Kitty in the 1911 or 1901?

You should be able to get his attestation papers from the Canadian archives. You can also apply for his full record if he was a member of the CEF. They charge about 40 cents per page. I sent away for OH's grandad's papers and it cost me just over £20 (including postage) which I thought was well worth it.

Jill

The marriage cert arrived this Morning. Wife was Kitty Eileen Blay, 26, spinster, residence Chertsey Surrey., father Frank Blay, dec'd. The marriage was by license at St John's Church, Mitford and was conducted by C H Breelden? Chaplain, CEF. Witnesses Henry T Pulfer and Hilda Constance Payne.

I have found Frank Blay on the 1871,

Household BLAY, Francis 1867 4 M Chorlton Lancashire
Household BLAY, Frank 1868 3 M Chertsey Surrey
Household BLAY, Frank 1868 3 M Headington Oxfordshire

The Chertsey one could possibly be a connection.

But after that I am stuck. Can't find Kitty either

I also found that Charles' father, Ernest joined the Canadian army and was attested in Jan 1917. He served 17 months and was discharged with Pneumonia and Rheumatism. And was re-attested in 1918 to enable him to have further treatment. I believe that Pneumonia and Rheumatism were symptoms of the great flu pandemic from 1818-1820, but I think some suffered from Pneumonia and Rheumatism before it was recognized as flu.

I have put questions as to whether he died at this time, on the Canadian Army forum but not yet rec'd a reply.

Quote "I think the death in Biggleswade, which covers the town of Dunton (St Dunton is someplace completely elsewhere), is Chas's wife. It makes sense for him to get special leave for this, and it seems unlikely this leave has anything to do with his dad's death - I don't know when this would be, but we do know Ernest's address in Dec 1915 was Fernglen ONT from Chas's attestation papers. Even in the 1960s, it took more than 5 d (but less than 6d) to make a transatlantic boat journey (So'ton --> NY)."

Thanks.

I will see what his marriage cert says when it arrives.

His mother would be about 69 when he was demobbed, in spite of what the 1911 Can census says. Charles gives a false date of birth at his attestation. It was 1890 not 1894.

I have just been looking at his army docs again. Charles was granted a discharge on compassionate grounds shortly after the special leave. (It has taken me a while to get a good idea from his army records as I dropped them and there are quite a few and not all that clear)

He returned to England from France 11.3.19. and ceased to be attached to the discharge unit at Buxton on his return to Canada on the Olympic, (dated 21.4.19. but that can't be correct) and was discharged on compassionate grounds in Toronto, April 23 1919.

Charles' assigned pay/separation allowance was paid to his mother Elizabeth from July-Dec 1917 and from December 1917 till March 1918 to his wife Kitty. Then it was suspended and paid to his mother from June 1918 with 2 month's back pay, till he was demobbed 23 Apr 1919.

I hope when I receive the marriage cert it may become clearer and if it has her father's name I will be able to try further. I don't hold out a lot of hope as this family seem to lie about their ages and often the father's name just has a line through it. I will try the death cert later.

I think the death in Biggleswade, which covers the twp of Dunton (St Dunton is someplace completely elsewhere), is Chas's wife. It makes sense for him to get special leave for this, and it seems unlikely this leave has anything to do with his dad's death - I don't know when this would be, but we do know Ernest's address in Dec 1915 was Fernglen ONT from Chas's attestation papers. Even in the 1960s, it took more than 5 d (but less than 6d) to make a transatlantic boat journey (So'ton --> NY).

I have now ordered the certificate

Thanks very much

I have ordered many in the past but just could not remember how.


Just a senior moment I suppose

David

Go to http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
You'll have to register first, then you can order using a credit card. You want to tick the "got reference box" or whatever it's called.
The reference info is: Marriages Oct/Nov/Dec 1917 Hambledon vol=2a page=419 for Charles Palmer.

Can some kind person remind me how to order a marriage cert as I have forgotten,

Maybe

I will order the marriage cert

The problem is that he was serving in France at the time. His assigned pay from April 1917 when he was posted to England was to his mother. From Dec 1917 it was to Kitty, but at some stage reverted to his mother, IT is not clear exactly when, but it seems about the middle of 1918. There is a note that AP is suspended till further orders, but the date is completely illegible.

Charles was granted compassionate discharge in Mar 1919 and was demobbed in April 1919. I assumed that may be due to the death of his father, as his mother was named next of kin.

Another problem is that his second wife was Belgian. She sailed for Canada with her parents from Antwerp 28 Mar 1920 and they married 3 May 1920 only six weeks later. I assumed that they had met while he was serving in France, as the passenger list give the nationality of the family as French.

Maybe she died in childbirth?

If so, it wouldn't be something he would want to tell a future bride.

If St Dunton is the same place as Dunton, Bedfordshire....then this may be her death reg.............

Deaths Mar 1919 (>99%)
Palmer Kate 29 Biggleswade 3b 597

The marriage cert. would give her age for cross reference.

Thanks Christina

I wonder what happened to her.

Charles was granted 10 days special leave on 19 Jan 1919. Place was recorded as St Dunton. He was serving in France at the time. His mother is named next of kin on his demob in Apr 1919 and he married again in Canada in May 1920 stating that he was a bachelor. T

This is it....their partners entries have not been transcribed on Freebmd.


Marriages Dec 1917 (28%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Banfield Herbert E G Mitchell Hambledon 2a 419
>>>>>>Blay Kitty E Palmer Hambledon 2a 419



Checked full index on Ancestry...Charles K. A. Palmer married to Blay.

I am trying to find the marriage of Charles Kenneth Alexander PALMER who was serving in the Canadian forces in 1917.

Charles was serving in the Canadian army and was granted permission to marry 15 October 1917. His wife is named as next of kin with effect from 14 Nov 1917, but I cannot trace a marriage. Wife was Kitty Eileen Palmer, 8 Latimer Road, Godalming Surrey which was 3½ miles from his army base at Witley.