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Hi everyone,

I've hit a real dead-end, and hope someone might be able to give me some advice about how to get past it.

I've had a lot of success tracing back lines of ancestors, all apart from the Williams family. I'm stuck because I don't believe that I know enough information to locate my great-grandfather and his family in the records.

Alfred Williams was born circa 1891. I have his marriage certificate, and I know when he died and where he is buried. The marriage certificate tells me his father's name (Edward - deceased) and both their occupations. Apart from that I have drawn a complete blank.

Rumour has it that he was born in Aberaeron, Wales, or in Blackburn. Other than that I can't find anything else. I've done numerous census searches (both person and address) and checked out BMD indices - so far nothing. I'm not even sure I would know if I found the right Alfred Williams!

Does anyone have any useful advice about how I might get past this impasse - I don't want to give up on tracing the ancestors with my own surname when I've done so well with other branches!

Thanks,
Ian Williams

What about witnesses for the marriage any clues there ?

or there occupations.

Where did he marry ?


June x

Hi Ian,

The only birth in Cardiganshire for Alfred Williams is in Machynlleth which is miles away from Aberaeron........... so it's either unlikely that he was born there or Alfred was a middle name.



Dee x

Another thought Ian, have you looked to see if there are any WW1 army records for him with the address from the marriage certificate???

Hi guys,

Thanks for your feedback, it's all very interesting.

The marriage certificate lists two witnesses - W. Needhardt and M. E. Barber. It lists Alfred as an Engineers Mechanic and his deceased father Edward as a Mechanical Engineer. He married in Lambeth and lived in Brixton, where his wife's family had been living for several decades previous.

What would be the next step with this information?

I saw the Machynlleth Alfred in the birth indices, and agree that it's probably too far away to be a good lead.

I'll see what I can find out about WW1 records, he definitely served and was quite badly gassed. Where would be the best place to check this out?

Thanks for all your help,

Ian

Hi Ian,

I think ancestry is your best bet for WW1 records, if you don't have any subs for it... post the address from the marriage cert on here and I'll have a look for you, also if you do post the address here then anyone else could come in and help.

Dee x

Hi Dee,

That's great, thank you.

The address Alfred lived at when he was married was:
10 Popes Lane, Brixton

He was there when they were married in 1917, and was still there in 1918 when my grandfather was born.

I have checked the 1911 census just in case, but it doesn't list that address. It does list surrounding residences.

Thanks,
Ian

Haven't found anything for the WW1 records Ian, sorry.

Just had a quick shuffle around on the 1911 and came across this;

First names ALFRED
First names Exact
Last names WILLIAMS
Last names Exact
Birth Year 1891
Birth Year +/- 1 years
Occupation ENGINEER <<<<<<<<<????
County London
District Woolwich


Unfortunately I haven't any credits left to view it, is this 1 you've looked at before??? Brixton is under the district Woolwich, however this 1 above is not coming up as Brixton..... but people did move around.



Dee x

Thank you very much for checking, I appreciate it.

Alfred Williams from Woolwich is one of the ones I've looked at. Unfortunately I don't think he's the one, his father's name is listed as William rather than Edward, and he's born in Kent rather than Wales (or Blackburn) - thanks for pointing it out though!

I'll have to work a bit harder to get past this dead-end - not sure what to try next.

Ian

Hi Ian,
have to tried to cross reference with Alfred's mother. If you know the name of his parents, look for her marriage details, send for the marriage certificate and you should be able to work out from there in which part of the country to look. Usually births are not too far away from the place of marriage. You will also then know in which part of the country Edward originated and who his father is.

Good hunting
Ann

Hi Ian,

Was just looking at the WW1 records again, hoping I'd missed something, sorry still can't see anything.


What about his childrens names??? As you're probably aware often the children were named after parents parents........ any unusual daughters and sons names???

Think I'm grasping at straws for you now........


Dee x

Hi guys,

At the moment I'm afraid I don't know the name of Alfred's mother, just his father is listed on his marriage certificate. Unfortunately he is deceased by 1917, so I'm not certain he'll show in a census search for Alfred the son and Edward the father as I don't know when he died.

Alfred had four children, George, John, Richard and Marjorie. All boys have the middle name Edward, as does my father, George's son. Do you think it is likely that Alfred himself had his father's name Edward as his middle name? Might help with the searches a little I suppose.

Any more straws to grasp!?!?

Thanks,
Ian

Hi Ian,

I think there's a strong possibilty that the son, especially if the eldest, would have his fathers name.

Alfred doesn't seem a very welsh name to me and neither does Edward, I'm not saying that Welsh folk didn't have those names..... just not very Welsh. (catching my drift???)

Another problem is that Edwards occupation could have changed between 1901 and 1911......... not easy.......... crystal ball anyone!!!!


Dee x

I see what you're getting at - I'll try looking for Alfred with a brother called Edward, maybe that will be easier to locate than a father called Edward (especially if he is had been deceased for a number of years before the marriage of Alfred).

If I can locate witnesses to the marriage I guess there's a slight chance Alfred could be lodging there.

Perhaps there is also something more in this possible link to Blackburn. I've had a good hunt around the birth records in that area and not found much so far, but I'll try them again.

I don't want to give up on Alfred as he's my only link to the Williams family tree, it would be such a shame to do so well with the other branches but not have the main branch more complete!

If you have any other brainwaves - please let me know.

Thanks,
Ian

Are you sure it says Needhardt for the witness as I have done a records check on here and ancestry and no matches for that surname.

The marriage certificate definitely lists W. Needhardt as a witness, I suppose it is possible that this is a mis-spelling - it's a shame it doesn't give a first name, only initial.

I wonder if it is possible that there is an Alfred Williams serving in the same regiment as this Walter Neidhart. What is the best site to check for military records like this?

Thanks,
Ian

Another thought that occured to me is that most of Wales isn't currently available in the 1911 census, so perhaps I will have more luck in the future as this information becomes available.

I have posted to the Great War Forum for some advice about trying to trace Alfred's war record, working on the premise that he may have served with Walter Neidhart. This is obviously a shot in the dark, but needs to be tried nevertheless. I'll post here when I find out more information, good or bad.

Thanks everyone for all the help and advice you've given - if anything else comes to mind, be sure and let me know!

Thanks,
Ian

Hi Ian - just a little suggestion (you may have already checked) but I know some people shortened Alfred to Fred - so you could try checking for Fred to see if you find anything. I also have hit a brick wall in my Williams research - thats the worse thing in having such a popular surname. Best wishes