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You could order the certs and have Robert a the checking point

Not sure how this works cost wise though. I am sure someone will advise on this?

Thank you all for taking so much trouble. I am still searching- the Emily and James censuses ( censi?) are, I think, the right ones. On further looking at the marriage cert with a magnifying glass I think it says Robert's occupation was 'painter' not printer but I have searched through censuses for him and the farmer Robert looked the most likely but that is not that close to Manchester that James would be described as being born in Manchester. Unfortunately there are lots of James Johnsons in the GRO birth index for Manchester for 1842 - I know he was 21 at marriage in 1863. His father Robert was still alive in 1863 I suppose as he was on the marriage certificate ( not sure if this means that or not). Is there any way of knowing how to order the right birth cert for James without having to get 6 of them on chance?I don't know.Stressed I am !

For ref here is the 1861 census when James and Emily were boarding together
1861 Ardwick
Susanah marshall 41 mar Shopkeeper b Hulme
Amelia marshall 17 daur Reeler b Manchester
Richard 15 Iron Turner b manchester
Ann Marshall 57 mother in law b Bacup
James Johnson 18 Iron Turner b Manchester
Emily Green 17 Reeler b Islington
Michael Lee 25 Gardener b Ireland

last 3 all boarders
In 1851 there is an Emily Green b 1844 Middlesex living Islington with father Wiliam and mother Sarah ??

That 1841 Betsy Johnson household does resemble the 1851 George & Elizabeth Cadbury household, too. And the printer link is a good one.

For the baptism ... hmm!


Edit - that's a submitted record. One would have to look at the actual parish record to see what it says.

The IGI has a baptism of a James Johnson 7/7/1844 Manchester son of Robert and Betsy -could a child be baptised thus if its named father was long dead?

There is this possibility in 1841 though it would probably mean James was born some time after Roberts death!
1841 Manchester
Betsy Johnson 30 spinner
John Johnson 13 *
Jane Johnson 11
Mary Johnson 8
Robert Johnson 6 all born Lancs
* note that in 1851 John s occupation is Ender in Print works so a link to fathers claimed occupation?

1871 for REFS

James Johnson
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Emily
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 64
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 223
Household Members: Name Age
James Johnson 26
Emily Johnson 26
William R Johnson 3
Alfred Johnson 10 months

1881??

James JOHNSON Head M Male 38 Manchester, Lancashire, England Iron Turner
Emily JOHNSON Wife M Female 36 Islington, Middlesex, England
William R. JOHNSON Son U Male 13 Leeds, York, England Errand Boy
Alfred JOHNSON Son U Male 11 Leeds, York, England Scholar
Harry JOHNSON Son Male 9 Manchester, Lancashire, England Scholar
James H. JOHNSON Son Male 7 Manchester, Lancashire, England Scholar
Emily JOHNSON Daur Female 4 Manchester, Lancashire, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 3 Heyrod St
Census Place Manchester, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341953
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3994 / 96
Page Number 48

Well, well done for working it all out from censuses!

The thing is that doing that gives you working hypotheses, but you then need to get certificates to confirm.

The George Bradbury - Elizabeth Johnson marriage should give her birth surname, and of course the age would also be a guide.

Have you found James with his parents in a census? I'm not seeing them in 1851, for example.

Just wondering whether he might have a sibling with a slightly less common name, and it might be possible to identify the birth, or at least a couple of possibles, and get a certificate. If the father's name was Robert, it would be a pretty good bet.

Oh, I see the one you're looking at -- 1851:


Name: James Johnson
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Manchester

George Bradbury 30
Elizabeth Bradbury 40
Elizabeth Bradbury 4
John Johnson 23
Robert Johnson 15
James Johnson 8


The sibs are too old to be in the GRO index.

So Robert wasn't a printer when James and Emily married -- he was deceased. ;) If those are the right people. George and Elizabeth married in 1849.

However, Robert would have had to be living in 1841, since James was only 8 in 1851.

I can't spot a household like that in 1841 -- the closest match for the children is:

Robert Johnson 40
Jane Johnson 40
> John Johnson 13
Mary Johnson 6
> Robert Johnson 3
George Johnson 1 6 Mo

edit - there are matching births for Robert and John, parents Robert and Jane, in the IGI, but no James.


Have you had any better luck?

1851
this is the only one that shows with the info you gave
but Dad Robert is a farmer of 16 acres
Name: James Johnson
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Betty
Gender: Male
Where born: Halsall, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Downholland
Ecclesiastical parish: Lydiate
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Ormskirk
Sub-registration district: Bickerstaffe
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 35
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Johnson 44
Betty Johnson 41
Betty Johnson 16
John Johnson 13
William Johnson 11
Henry Johnson 9
James Johnson 8
Thomas Johnson 5
Alice Johnson 2

Roy

For reference - you already have this?

Marriages Jun 1863 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JOHNSON James Manchester 8d 305

Have you got James on the 1851 census

Oh - oops - I have got the marriage cert, I had forgotton. Father's name was Robert but don't know the mother's name- could still be Elizabeth for some reason I have that in my mind.- no idea of her surname but Robert was a printer when Emily and James were married.

Thank you for taking trouble to reply. Emily's name was worked out by convoluted means looking at census returns ( James and Emily were boarders together before they married and we knew Emily was from London)

Hi Jane.
Just checking - I assume you got Emily's surname from children's birth certs? There is only one possible marriage on freebmd (lucky you with names like this!) so maybe the quickest way to move on would be to get the cert where at least you will find their fathers' names.
jan

If you buy James & Emily's M/C
It will give you his Age, dads name & dads occupation

Like you say there are a maze of Johnsons

Help! I am trying to find James's parents amongst a maze of Johnsons. James was born in Manchester about 1842 and married Emily Green. They had 5 children, Emily, James H, Harry, William and Alfred. I am looking for James's Mum and Dad. I think they may be Elizabeth perhaps Wood and perhaps John ( just a guess from eldest child in 1851 census) I think Elizabeth remarried to George Bradbury but again, just a guess.Don't have any idea how to prove any of these suppositions and my eyes are drooping from looking at the endless lists. Any clever genies out there who could assist?

Jane