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Have you tried the Rootschat site, they have a section for Travelling people, I have found it very helpful, good luck in your searching. Malibu

1911:

Cloud Cooper born c1906


Births Mar 1906
Cooper Claud Hamilton S. Shields 10a 968

?


Big gap between him and the next youngest child in 1911:

Martha c1888
Polly c1889
Lily c1891
Richard c1893
George c1895
Nellie c1899
>
Cloud c1906


Now I have to say --

"I found the name Hare on her daughter Mary's birth certificate"

-- if Mary was one of the eldest (c1889) and her mother was the same person as the Elizabeth Cooper in the 1911, my theory about a combined household would go out the window probably.

I think if I were you, I'd take a look at Claud's birth certificate, and see whether his mother was indeed the same person as Mary's mother.

Eve, I'd be happy to take one last stab at helping you out here (one Cooper to another!). But only if you disclose the information you have.

I'm not going to pay to look at the 1911 census results. I assume you have.

So you know, in particular, the **places of birth** for all the members of the Cooper household.

If I knew their **places of birth**, I could try looking for them in earlier censuses.

I'm suspecting the household was a merged one - children of one or both spouses that the other is not a parent of.

In the Cooper household, there is:

Polly c1889

And daughter Mary is this one?

BURNSIDE MARY 1889 22 Morpeth Northumberland

Polly is ordinarily a nickname for Mary. This would give them two daughters named Mary born at more or less the same time.

Of course, Polly could be her official name, and maybe Martha was born in 1887 and Polly and Mary were born in 1888 and 1889, say.

No Polly Cooper was born anywhere near Morpeth 1887-1890.

If you'd open the vault and tell us *where they were born*, from the 1911 census, it might be possible to do some more delving into it all!

Hi Janey
I found the name Hare on her daughter Mary's birth certificate. not as yet able to find them on 1891 0r 1901 census. The names of George and Elizabeth's children , were the ones you found on 1911c. There was also there other daughter Mary who married Fred Burnside with their 2 children Arthur and Georgina on the 1911 census. Mary was my Husbands Grandmother.

Eve

Well Eve, if you do want to answer any of the many questions asked here --

How do you know Elizabeth's surname was Hare ... do you have any of the family in the 1901 or 1891 censuses ... what were their children's names and dates of birth ... do you know where the children were born (e.g. from the 1911 census) ... ?

-- you never know, someone might be able to help!

Hi Janey

Many thanks for all your help for the Coopers, I will have to look into them more fully
Eve

How about ...


1891

Name: Liza C Hare
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Michel O
Mother's Name: Margaret I
Where born: Thornley, Durham, England
>>> Condition as to marriage: Married

Civil parish: Wingate
Town: Trimdon Foundry
County/Island: Durham
Registration district: Easington

Michel O Hare 53 - born Ireland
Margaret I Hare 49 - born Durham
Ralph W Hare 34 - son, born Thornley, single
Liza C Hare 32
Sarah Hare 19
Patrick Hare 17
Thomas O Hare 16
Thomas Clark 28


Don't see a marriage for them, or a birth for Liza ...

-- the household's surname is obviously O'Hare, though.


Marriages Sep 1859
Brown Thomas Gateshead 10a 621
? Cook Margaret Gateshead 10a 621
? O'Hare Michael Gateshead 10a 621


1881 in Wingate, Durham

Michel O'Hare 41
Margaret J. O'Hare 46
Michel O'Hare 16
Mary J. O'Hare 12
Sarah O'Hare 10
Patric O'Hare 6
Thomas O'Hare 5
Ellen O'Hare 2
William Walters 24
Ralph Walters 20
Elizth. Walters 20 -- daughter, unmarried, born Thornley

Walters children appear to be children of Margaret before marriage.

Can't make any connection to Cooper, though.

Next up. ;)

3. Many thanks for the info will have to check out if I can find a Marriage

You're welcome, although I don't think I found any info. ;)

The thing is, there isn't a marriage.

So either

(a) Elizabeth had been married before and married George Cooper under her first husband's surname
(possibly some of the children were from a first marriage?)

or

(b) they weren't married
(possibly because one or both of them were married to someone else)


Which daughter's birth cert do you have? When and where?

Does either George or Elizabeth have a middle name on that certificate?

Eve, please always answer in the thread. Info does nobody any good sitting in my inbox, and if I get it later I have to try to figure out what it's about.


1. Eveline I have the inormation from the 1911 censu many thanks Eve

Yes, that's lovely. Nobody else has it. Searching for a Cooper in censuses (believe me, I know; my gr-grmother was a Cooper) is not easy without having info to go on, like children's names and ages.

Can you confirm that the names I listed above are all in their 1911 household?

And where were the children all born?

I've been searching for them together in 1901 and 1891 (the older children), to no avail.


2. Yes Elizabeth's name was taken from her daughters birth certificate

Good, thanks -- but as you'll see, I've had no luck finding any record of such an Elizabeth Hare. Have you?

There isn't an Elizabeth Hare born in Thornley (Easington reg dist) 1865-1875 in the GRO index or in the 1871 or 1881 census.

There was this one:

Births Dec 1868
HARE Elizabeth Auckland 10a 218

To Derek They didn't marry before they were born as they married either 1884 and they were born 1857 and 1869

Okay ......


1911

COOPER GEORGE 1857 54 Morpeth Northumberland

occupation showman.

With him ...

COOPER ELIZABETH 1867 44 Morpeth Northumberland

and the others may not all be in the same household (Coopers in Morpeth living with George and Elizabeth):


Martha c1888
Polly c1889
Lily c1891
Richard c1893
George c1895
Nellie c1899
Cloud c1906

In 1911, do they have children born before 1901? Names, dates and places of birth ...?

Where are they in 1911?

Do you have them in the 1901 census?

Info like that would help a lot, so we don't have to go searching for it and guessing at them.

Is Elizabeth's surname, Hare, taken from a child's birth certificate?

u got some typos here...they wouldnt have been married before they were born....!!!

My gt grandparents stated on 1911 census they had been married for many years - they actually married in 1914

Trying to find marriage for George Cooper bn 1857Warwick Birmingham to Elizabeth Hare bn about 1869 Thornley Durham. 1911 cenus said been married 26 yrs have looked at 1884/5 marriages without any luck. Ocupation stated as Travelling Showman. i know the Cooper family were showman and as they travelled al lot it is hard to find them. Any information woul be appreciated Eve