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I wonder if anyone can help with my gg grandfather born in or about 1836, I think in Derby, died 1917, in Burton on Trent. He married a Fanny Hanson and together they had 8 children including my g grand father Charles Frederick. I'd like to learn who his ancestors were- one lady, Tanya, has his father as Joseph Brentnall married to Jane Johnson, she has the same siblings, Sydney etc, but I wonder if she's not confusing him (Thomas) with another Thomas born in 1838, also in Derbyshire....
In any case I get, via the censuses, to Francis born in Derby ca: 1795, who was married to an Elizabeth (Taylor I think) via the 1841 and 1851 censuses.
And there I hit a wall.

Can anybody assist??

Sorry to have gone on so long

Look forward with bated breath to any replies!

Thanks

Simon

The info about the marriage seems to come from a submitted (unverified) record in the IGI:

THOMAS BRENTNALL
Spouse: FANNY HANSON
Marriage: 05 JUN 1860 Repton, Derby, England
Batch Number: 8834731

The marriage doesn't appear to be in the GRO index.

Do you have a child's birth certificate to confirm the wife's name?

If you could find a marriage registration, it should provide Thomas's father's name. Censuses are an excellent tool but you seem to have some conflicting info so I'd go for whatever "official" record you can get.

Thanks for that Janey, I have actually applied for a marriage cert. I found the marriage using Hanson, as Brentnall is mis-spelt.... Anyway I'm waiting for the cert. and we'll see what it says- if you need any info from it then let me know
Simon

Thanks for that Janey, I have actually applied for a marriage cert. I found the marriage using Hanson, as Brentnall is mis-spelt.... Anyway I'm waiting for the cert. and we'll see what it says- if you need any info from it then let me know
Simon

For reference, your Thomas in 1861 in Burton Upon Trent:

Thos Brentnall 25
Fanny Brentnall 26
Elizth Brentnall 23
Charlotte Brentnall 13
Charles Pan 25


The Thomas (born Shipley) son of Joseph and Jane in 1851 in Heanor:

Joseph Brentnall 39
Jane Brentnall 36
William Brentnall 16
Thomas Brentnall 13
Ann Brentnall 11
James Brentnall 9
Elizabeth Brentnall 5

Nobody else would know who "Sydney etc." are, but there's no Sydney there, anyway.


I don't see the other one in 1851, but here he is in 1841 in St Peter:

Francis BrentnallSer 46
Elizabeth Brentnall 33
Francis BrentnallJunr 12
William Brentnall 10
Thomas Brentnall 5
Elizabeth Brentnall 3


If this other person has those children attached to parents Joseph and Jane, that is plainly wrong.

Best to wait until you have it -- there's really little point in anybody else poking around completley on spec, when you're going to have actual information in a few days.

Just come back to the thread here and post what it says - everything, including addresses and occupations and witnessses and so on. That should settle it then!

Th IGI has
Thomas Brentnall born 21/12/1835, baptised 2/1/1836 Derby son of Francis and Elizabeth

The marriage on BVRI gives his father as Francis:

BRENTNALL, Thomas Age: 25 Marriage
Wife: Fanny HANSON Age: 26
Marriage Date: 5 Jun 1860 Recorded in: Repton, Derbyshire, England
Husband's Father: Francis BRENTNALL
Wife's Father: Samuel HANSON
Source: FHL Film 1042137 Dates: 1837 - 1880

Thanks everybody for the replies.... It certainly does seem that my Thomas's father was Francis born about 1795.... WIll let you all know what is on the marriage cert when I get it.... I guess the next step is a trip to the UK and Derby records office to try and find Francis and maybe an ancestor or two of his....
Simon

THOMAS BRENTNALL Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 21 DEC 1835

Christening: 02 JAN 1836 Brookside Chapel-Independent, Derby, Derby, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS BRENTNALL Family
Mother: ELIZABETH


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C066651


Brentnall, British Isles
Father: Francis , Mother: Elizabeth
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: C066651

1. MARTHA BRENTNALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 02 JAN 1836 Brookside Chapel-Independent, Derby, Derby, England
Birth 21 Dec 1835

2. WILLIAM BRENTNALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 18 AUG 1831 Brookside Chapel-Independent, Derby, Derby, England
Birth 7 May 1831

3. THOMAS BRENTNALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 02 JAN 1836 Brookside Chapel-Independent, Derby, Derby, England
Birth 21 Dec 1835

4. FRANCIS BRENTNALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 14 JUN 1829 Brookside Chapel-Independent, Derby, Derby, England
Birth 7 May 1829

1841

Name: Thomas Brentnall
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Gender: Male
Where born: Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: St Peter
Hundred: Derby Borough
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Derby
Sub-registration district: St Peter
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Francis BrentnallSer 46
Elizabeth Brentnall 33
Francis BrentnallJunr 12
William Brentnall 10
Thomas Brentnall 5
Elizabeth Brentnall 3

1851

Name: Francis Brentnall
Age: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1795
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Belper
Ecclesiastical parish: Bridge Hill
Town: Belper
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Belper
Sub-registration district: Duffield
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 40
Household Members: Name Age

Francis Brentnall 56 Widower
Elizabeth Brentnall 13
Henry Brentnall 10
George Brentnall 8
Charles Brentnall 3
Harl Ollensham 47 Housekeeper

Brentnall, British Isles
Father: Francis , Mother: Elizabeth
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: C021695
1. Harriett Brentnall - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 JAN 1841 Derby, Derby, England
Birth 2 Feb 1840

2. Elizabeth Brentnall - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 11 JAN 1838 Derby, Derby, England
Birth 10 Nov 1837

Looking at 1861, Elizabeth is Thomas's sister - which fits with Elizabeth aged 13 living with Francis in 1851, and I'm not convinced about Charlotte - I think someone had rush of blood and it should be Charles - born Belper, which, again, fits with 1851

Hello again all
It's been a little while, but I now have in front of me the marriage cert of my gg grandfather, Thomas Brentnall, who, on 5 June 1860 married Fanny Hanson at Repton Derbyshire. His father is listed as Francis Brentnall, clerk, so that clears that one up. Fanny's father is Samuel Hanson who was parish clerk, I suppose of Repton. The witnesses were on his side John Campbell, now I wonder who he was, in any case Thomas had a son Sydney Campbell Brentnall, on Fanny's side it was Elizabeth Statham. Now, as far as Francis Brentnall goes, from IGI, I get a christening date of 25th April 1795, though this Francis is listed as female (!!!) this I assume must be mistaken. Anyway this Francis' parents are listed, as Charles Brentnall and Martha Jones married at St. Alkmunds (I Presume in Derby??) on 5 September 1784. And there the line- assuming it is one- stops.
Any clues as to further ancestry anyone??
Thanks

Simon

Don't assume that the baptism has the sex wrong - it's much more likely to be incorrect/alternative spelling of the forename.

Also, the record to which you refer is 'submitted' and therefore unreliable. Only 'extracted' records can be viewed with any degree of certainty

People were mostly illiterate, but they could usually tell the difference between a boy and a girl

Look on GR for a thread offering Derbyshire parish record lookups - I believe the poster's name is Derek

Thank you Freewheel, I already posted a similar post on the Derbyshire Records thread, hope that will some clarity....

Simon

Did you inform the member with the Derbyshire lookup thread about this thread?

Hi Janey
Yes I did and we've had quite a lot of fun this week.... Am trying at the moment to sort out Francis born 1757 son of William and Hannah (Longdon) and Francis born 1795 (who appears as a female christening in IGI, if indeed it is him) and Francis born 1785 also son of William and Hannah..... Very confusing and all help gratefully received.... Looks certain I will have come over to Blighty and spend a week in Derbyshire records instead of going skiing in Feb. Oh what fun!!
Simon