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Happy New Year Everyone, Very Much A Last Chance Hit and Hope Post...
My GGF was Edward Kyle but we know he changed his name to Kyle when he was roughly in his 20's. My great-uncle mentioned before he died that my grandad was never told but was adiment that the original family name was Lewis.
Edward had a bit of a hard life, all we know of his childhood is that he was from London (maybe the nearer home counties) and that his father died when he was a small boy, his mother re-married but when her and her husbands first child came along they packed up and moved without Edward knowing, he went to live with his aunt but ran away and was on the road with a travelling chair repairer. Later on he signed up for the great war with a cavelry regiment in London around the City/Woolwich area. This is where the name change comes in, supposedly he was a bit of a 'character' and hit his superior officer so was ordered to be put in front of a firing squad as an example, he begged to go to war as he might as well die doing something useful but the decision stood. In light of this he busted out of military prison and went on the run and changed his name, by all accounts the surname Kyle comes from a picture titled 'The Kyle of Fife' hanging in a train carriage.
He later decided to hide right under the militaries noses by working at the Woolich Arsenal where he met my ggm, Emma Tiffen-Wilson who was married to Thomas Langley at the time. Thomas was at war at the time Edward and Emma got 'close', supposedly Edward had to jump out the window once when Thomas was on unexpected leave. Edward and Emma ran away and set up home in the Silvertown/Canning Town area of the East End with Emma's three children where they went on to have my grandad and his brothers and sisters, they did marry when Langley died some years later but cannot trace the Marriage Certificate on any records using the different names, years, etc.
As I say a very, very long shot but running round in circles as we do not know his date of birth, original surname, as I will never be famous enough to be on 'Who Do You Think You Are?' hoping someone may know a story from members of their family about a relative they never met. It may even be from the children of the step-father who wouldn't even be a Lewis.
As I say a very, very, very long shot but if this does ring the smallest of bells please let me know as I would hate for this line to end at my ggf especially as we know so little about him.
Kindest Regards
Danny
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Edward and Emma's marriage:
Name: Emma Langley
Spouse Surname: Kyle
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1939
Registration district: West Ham
Registration county (inferred): Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 141
Spouse: Edward Kyle
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It is a million times more likely that someone unrelated here might help unravel the mystery than that a relation will happen upon the post and recognize someone!
Can you just add a few dates to your mix even approximate ones, like when Edward may have died, what year your granddad or maybe the oldest of their children was born, and some names if the people are deceased or agree to the info being offered. Any hard data like that (even if false, lol) can help.
There are Kyle-Wilson births in West Ham in 1925, 1926, 1932.
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Would this be Edward's death?
Name: Edward J Kyle
Death Registration Month/Year: 1959
Age at death (estimated): 63
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 5a
Page: 544
Emma was older
Births Mar 1890 (>99%)
Tiffen-Wilson Emma W. Ham 4a 69
Name: Emma Kyle ?
Death Registration Month/Year: 1962
Age at death (estimated): 71
Registration district: Thurrock
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 924
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Danny,
As Bruce says, we need some more info. Edward and Emma's marrige cert should give his age (although it might just say "full age"); it might also give his father's name and occuation. Also, his death cert should have his age at death or DOB. You should start by getting these two certs.
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If that death is the right Edward the certificate would give his full middle name.
It could well have been made up out of whole cloth but it would still be worth knowing what it says!
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Hi Potty and Bruce, Thanks ever so much for your replies and info. I have been able to add some more information and validate the info you forwarded to me.
Edward (Ted) John Kyle
Birth: c1896
Marriage: 1st Qtr 1939 – Emma Langley (Maiden Name: Emma Tiffen-Wilson), West Ham
Death: 13 June 1959 – Upton Park, Newham, London
Emma Tiffen-Wilson
Birth: 11/12/1889 – Silvertown, West Ham
Mariage (1): 06/02/1910 - Thomas Langley – Parish Church (All Saints), West Ham
Marriage (2): 1st Qtr 1939 – Edward Kyle – West Ham
Death: c1962 - Thurrock, Essex
Emma Tiffen-Wilson’s Children
Alex (Alec) Langley c1911
Emma Langley c 1913
Fan (Nell) c1915
Edward (Ted) Kyle c1921
Walter (Gus) Henry Kyle 1923
Ronald (Ron) Kyle c1925
Lucy (Sally) Kyle c1927
Millie Kyle c1929
Terrence (Terry) Kyle c1931
We have now been able to work out Edward's death due to info from a family memeber and it matches the suggested Death Certificate. Edward committed suicide and was an outpatient at mental health hospital, I have contacted them and they have said I have to obtain his Birth Certificate before they will look for any records. When I do and if they have his patient records I am hoping it will give his childhood and life story and what actually happened during his life as that should all be documented.
Emma was older than Edward, I know from family that Emma and Edward waited for Langley to pass away as they wouldn't/couldn't get a divorce and I know that my gd and his siblings attentended their parents wedding.
I think I done myself as I was trying to find a Kyle - Wilson/Tiffen-Wilson wedding rather than Kyle - Langley. I know the Langley children went to Thomas' funeral so I think he must have refused a divorce. I must have had a bad day when I visted the records office as my gd didn't even come up and I have all his details.
Think it is a hit with Emma's death certificate as well as the age/date match and I know she moved to South-East Essex around the Thurrock area in later life.
Many thanks once again, I will get copies of Emma and Edward's Marriage and Death Certificates, hopefully this will give me a lead to Edward's Birth Name/Certificate.
Happy Hunting and Happy New Year
Danny
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