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i really dont know where to go with this i really need some clarity,was eliza blind yes as it states it on the census.the birth certificate clearly states eliza burgess formerly smith.a lie i dont know.in 1915 there were smith loving 15 edmund street camberwell?now on earlier census there is a mention of james burgess but cant find a birth for him can someone possibly help here please its getting more confusing by the day regards and ta for all those who are helping.

i only have what my father in law mentioned once and that was his mother was blind and when she died he was sent to live with family(james maybe)all he said was he was young and it was in london,as i mentioned to him my father was from bow,he was always talking of boxing booths

she is an Eliza Burgess Bp 23 Feb 1873 to John and Sarah Burgess of
26 George street Gr Suffolk Rd[?] Coachman

she was called Lizzie in 1881 !!

Mavis

Mavis

Deaths are very different when it comes to registration. A death must be registered to be able to dispose of the body (burial, cremation etc)

It maybe that Eliza isn't actually her first name! she might have been Elizabeth, or indeed Eliza may have been a second name.

I have looked for a relevant death, and have already asked for confirmation of when they think she died. 'A few years' after his birth could be upto 10 years!.... stories change over time and dates get shortened! We've had this before only to find the mother alive and well and simply just not living with the children.

We need to find out what proof Patricia has that she has died? Is this a family tale or are there hard facts she's not mentioned yet?

It could be with her being blind it was kinder to tell the children one thing but infact the opposite were true.... happened far too often. I have it within my own family!

I should add i'm 10 years into trying to find the death of my OH GGmother, she's becoming very illusive and i only just have a birth for her, her parents very kindly name 2 children maria Liggins, born 4 years apart and neither die!

Tracey x

I don't seem to be able to find a death for Eliza Burgess ,abt 1873, was she one of those not registered ???

anyone else had a look ??

Mavis

Patricia,

I think Mavis was refering to the witness's on the marriage cert... as you mentioned a marriage.

T x

the certificate i have is a copy from 3 march 1950 so no witness on this.10 august 1909 15 edmund street,william john burgess.sex boy.fathers name william john. mothers name eliza burgess formerly smith. profession of father gen labourer.signature,description of resident informant x the mark of eliza burgess mother 15 edmund street.when regd 13 september 1909 signature of registrar a.e.baker.and that all im afraid can you help please regards

Patricia

who were the witnesses, would like to know please

John Burgess [1838] was a coachman at one time

Mavis

It's all looking a little weird.

James Smith of the address of the birth of William Burgess was a Coachman....

I do wonder if Eliza has created an entire new life based upon someone else's?

william johns marriage to may larke 9 august 1941 father deceased profession of father cabman is this any help

When William John Burgess Married did he enter a father on the cert.
who are the witnesses

Mavis

Nice find Maureen,

I do wonder then if she was maybe staying with them and 'adopted' their surname as her maiden name?

T x

Was James the brother he went to live with ??

mavis

Not that there's a shortage of Smiths around:

1911 census transcription details for: 15 Edmund Street Camberwell S E
RG14PN2487 RG78PN84 RD27 SD3 ED3 SN128

Reg. District: Camberwell Sub District: Camberwell North
Parish: Camberwell Enum. District: 3
Address: 15 Edmund Street Camberwell S E County: London

SMITH, James Charles Head Married M 32 1879 Coachman Commercial London Camberwell
SMITH, Emily Hannah Wife Married
9 years F 30 1881 London Camberwell
SMITH, James George Son M 7 1904 London Camberwell
SMITH, Sidney Charles Son M 4 1907 London Camberwell


Maureen
nee-you guessed it!

Possibly the baptism of the Walworth James found?

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about James Burgess
Name: James Burgess
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 23 Jun 1899
Father's Name: James Burgess
Mother's Name: Eliza Burgess
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Walworth
Borough: Southwark
County: Middlesex

What else do we know about Eliza?

Deaths Jun 1911
Smith Eliza M E 43 Camberwell 1d 373

Do we also have a timeframe for how long after his birth she sadly died?

T x

thank you all for your input as i said before the only info i have is on william johns birth certificate,he would never speak about the family,somebody just remembers thta his mother was blind,he was young when his mother died and wnt to live with a brother,i need all the help i can get on this one please. william was a gen labourer.eliza made a x where the name is entered i guess she couldnt write(see) the birth is regd north camberwell 15 edmund streeet

For the sake of propriety husbands were often invented when it came to registering a birth.
What better name than Smith!
There is no marriage to match the couple. One in Surrey in 1909 but not yours. William Burgess married Edith Maud.
You cannot discount the information given because the birth certificate names a father I'm afraid and her blindness is a major contributing factor to it being the right person.

Patricia, there is no marriage for an Eliza Smith to a William Burgess at all.

you need to consider other options, there is the fact that Williams second name was John.

dont rule out this family, John / Sarah, with daughter being blind is a factor.

perhaps a copy of the James Burgess birth might help ??

Mavis

Patricia

What was William's occupation on his birth cert?


Tracey x