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Thomas Murray b about 1839 in Ashton married Catherine b 1842 in Ireland.I dont know where they were married but I am trying to find Catherine's maiden name and am assuming they married around early 1860's as their first child James was born in 1862 in New Zealand (Thomas was in the army) I have looked on marriage records for the early 1860's but they only give one name and not who they married. Is there any easier way of finding this information, where else can I look ?

You could try searching for his birth here: https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2FqueryEntry.m%3Ftype%3Dbirths
and see if it gives a maiden name for the mother

Have you any idea where they married?
1871 England Census
about Thomas Murray
Name: Thomas Murray
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Catherine Murray
Gender: Male
Where born: Ashton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Weedon
Ecclesiastical parish: Peterborough
Town: Weedon
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England
Registration district: Daventry
Sub-registration district: Weedon
ED, institution, or vessel: Weedon Barracks
Household schedule number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Murray 32
Catherine Murray 29
James Murray 9
Harriet Murray 7
Susan Murray 5
Thos Francis Murray 3
Emma Jane Murray 2

Reposting SatNav's 1871:

1871 England Census
Civil Parish: Weedon
Ecclesiastical parish: Peterborough
Town: Weedon
County/Island: Northamptonshire
Country: England
Registration district: Daventry
Sub-registration district: Weedon
ED, institution, or vessel: Weedon Barracks
Household schedule number: 1

Thomas Murray 32 Ashton, Lancashire, England M Sergant 2/14 regt active service
Catherine Murray 29 Ireland Wife M
James Murray 9 New Zealand Son Scholar
Harriet Murray 7 New Zealand Daughter Scholar
Susan Murray 5 New Zealand Daughter Scholar
Thos Francis Murray 3 Tarmauia[Tasmania] Son Scholar
Emma Jane Murray 2 South Australia Daughter Scholar

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1490; Folio: 152; Page: 11; GSU roll: 828796.


Births Dec 1838 (>99%)
MURRAY Thomas Ashton 20 87

[Thomas's birth was rego'ed in the Hartshead sub-district of Ashton RD, like the other names on that GRO page.]

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1837 to 1839
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
MURRAY Thomas Hartshead Tameside HAR/2/32
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
[Although Hartshead and Ashton under Lyne were both in Lancs, most of the Ashton registers cover parts of the modern RD of Tameside, so they are listed under Cheshire at this site]


I think your best bet for Cath's MS is to get a b.cert for one or more of her kids. I don't know what details will appear, nor even when civil registration began for these 3 jurisdictions, but that's what I'ld check out.

You might check out the National Archive at Kew for his service record - I've not seen one this old, so don't know what's on it either. Maybe you could find where his unit was with dates. It would help in a search for his marr.

Looked on Freebmd but couldn't really understand it. I must be a bit thick !!! I have done as you suggested and opened up another thread to try and find James birth in New Zealand or Emma in Australia and see if I can get Catherines maiden name from there. Thanks for your help.

1881?
Selina Murray Thomas abt 1874 Aldershot, Hampshire, England Daughter Richmond, Yorkshire
These could be but iffy for districts.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Mary Selina Murray
Name: Mary Selina Murray
Year of Registration: 1874
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Hartley Wintney
County: Hampshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 167
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Annie Murray
Name: Annie Murray
Year of Registration: 1871
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Altrincham
County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 175

As an example on FreeBMD ...

On the search page:
For Type select Marriage
For Surname put Murray
For First Name(s) put Thomas
For Spouse First Name(s) put Catherine
For Date Range put, say, March 1855 to December 1865
Hit Search

You will get a list of possible matches - 5 in this example.
Click on any of the 'Page' numbers in the list and you'll see who is on that page. For example, the first one (Liverpool) shows a Thomas Murray, but you cannot tell whether he married Ellen Mellor or Catherine McDonough. However, if nothing else, this gives you a reasonably short list to research further.

If you're really lucky, one of the children or grandchildren might have a middle name the same as Catherine's maiden name - fairly common practice in Scotland.

By default, FreeBMD uses supplied first names as the start, so putting 'cath' would include 'Catherine', 'Catharine', 'Cathy', 'Cathy Ellen' etc. You can use this, and wildcards, to widen your search - or click on the check boxes to modify the behaviour.
Edit: You can even put '* catherine' to select Catherine as a middle name - assuming it was recorded in the index as Catherine rather than just 'C'.

Edit (again): The most likely one of this short list looks like Catherine Narnay, in Manchester, December quarter 1859.

Continuing wor lad's example, one can also check local indices - see
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/index.php?form_action=local

In this case, 4 of the 5 RDs have online indices. Since the local indices usually refence marrs by entry #, not page #, we can usually pair up spouses.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1859
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MURRAY Thomas MELLOR Ellen Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_LP/83/5
MURRAY Thomas NARNAY Catherine Manchester Register Office or Registrar Attended Manchester MCR_RM/45/134

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1865
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MURRAY Thomas MULLIN Mary Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester CHO_RM/22/77

Newcastle
1863 MURRAY Thomas
1863 BURN Bridget
Marriage venue - Church unknown
Register No./Entry No.
RO32/102


Pre-1898, only jews, quakers, C of E and registrars were approved to keep registers, so the registrar would need to attend non-conformist marrs so the couple could sign his registrar. So the registrar's register would contain these marrs, as well as rego office marrs. After 1898, most non-conformists were approved to keep rego's (but not RCs until 1980ish).

The fifth marr is missing a groom (probably his page # is mistranscribed).

Marriages Jun 1864 (>99%)
Carter Catherine London City 1c 155
Murray Thomas London City 1c 155
Smith Eliza London City 1c 155

Hi GeordiLad
That was very helpful and I have looked on Freebmd but none of these seem likely. Is there a differant system to go through as Catherine was born in Ireland ?

Regards Wendy

Hi Wendy,

I tried the site that Lauren suggested - no luck finding James's birth in 1862 (though there was one in 1861). Perhaps, as Thomas was in the army, it was registered as British Overseas rather than NZ?

Catherine being born in Ireland doesn't affect the marriage registration - if it occurred in England or Wales then FreeBMD should cover it.

Not sure where you go from here if that's all the information you have available. Can you give us any more clues regarding what you have already tried?

Out of interest, what did you not like about the 1859 Manchester marriage to Catherine Narnay?

mgnv - Thanks for the link to the local records offices, and explaining the possible benefits - that's useful.