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Sue
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7 Dec 2010 05:48 |
My great-grandmother was born Marion Rosetta James. All we know is that she was born in Wales - no more specific than that - and that her parents were William James, carpenter, and Jane James (maiden name unknown). Her marriage certificate (1876, London) states that he was a carpenter, and was deceased at that time.
Marion had a son (my grandfather) out of wedlock in Chelsea, England, on Sept 6, 1873. She told him, when he was in his teens, that his father was Matthew Rufus Foster, son of Spencer and Flora Foster. That is all we know about his birth father. She told him that his name was actually William Henry Foster. That is the name that he went by from that point on.
Marion married Joseph Portius Clark (1831 - 1916) on May 21, 1876, at St. Luke's Parish Church, Chelsea, England. From then until his teens, as noted in the previous paragraph, her son was known as "Joey Clark Junior". According to the marriage certificate, they were living at 35 Leader St., London, England, at the time of the marriage.
Family tradition says that Marion's father died when she was quite young, and that she moved to London, England to work at a fairly young age. I have not yet been able to verify that.
I have not been able to find my grandfather's birth certificate, under William Henry Foster, or William Henry James, or any combination thereof. I cannot find Marion, or him, in the 1881 census. (Marion's husband retired from working as a sailor, and preceded her to Canada, where his sister and her husband and family were living. He is in the 1881 Canada census, at Beaverton, ON, Canada. It therefore is unlikely that he would be in the 1881 UK census) All 3 appear in the 1891 Canadian census as a family unit.
I cannot find a Spencer and Flora Foster marriage, and there is no record of them in the UK census documents. Neither can I find a Matthew Foster, son of Spencer and Flora. I have no information with respect to what part of England Matthew was from, but he obviously was in London around 1872 or early 1873.
With respect to Marion's family, I did find a William James in the 1851 census, age 20, working as a carpenter, born and living in Wales:
1851 Wales Census about William James Name: William James Age: 20 Estimated birth year: abt 1831 Relation: Carpenter Gender: Male Where born: Llanllawddog Civil Parish or Township: Llanfihangel AR Arth County/Island: Carmarthenshire Country: Wales Registration district: Newcastle In Emlyn Sub-registration district: Kenarth ED, institution, or vessel: 6f Household schedule number: 21 Household Members: Name Age David Jones 57 Lettice Jones 63 Elizabeth Jones 23 William James 20 However, I cannot find a marriage record for him and Jane, whose maiden name I do not know. Another possibility is this family grouping, again from the 1851 census:
1851 Wales Census about Marian James Name: Marian James Age: 1 Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Relation: Granddaughter Father's Name: William Mother's Name: Ann Gender: Female Where born: Pembroke Dock, Pembrokeshire, Wales Civil Parish or Township: Pembroke St Mary Ecclesiastical parish: St John Town: Pembroke Dock County/Island: Pembrokeshire Country: Wales Registration district: Pembroke Sub-registration district: Tenby ED, institution, or vessel: 1g Household schedule number: 3 Household Members: Name Age George Morgan 68 Head - widower - Superannuated - Dock Laborer William James 39 Son-in-law - Joiner Ann James 27 Daughter William G James 8 Grandson Jane E James 6 Granddaughter Marian James 1 Granddaughter Hugh Isaac 42 Visitor - Pensioner - Royal Marines Jane Isaac 36 Visitor - Pensioner's wife Louisa Curtis 16 Visitor If you could help me to break through this brick wall that I've been struggling with for the past 10 years or so, that would be great! Any information re the Foster family, or the James family, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your assistance!
Sue Fenn
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Susan
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7 Dec 2010 07:01 |
For Ref
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about Marion Rosetta James Name: Marion Rosetta James Year of Registration: 1876 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Chelsea (1841-1981) County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 1a Page: 480 Married Joseph Portine Clark
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7 Dec 2010 07:55 |
Here's the Marian James from Pembroke in 1871:
1871 Wales Census about Mary Ann James Name: Mary Ann James Age: 21 Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Relation: Step Daughter Mother's name: Ann Osmond Gender: Female Where born: Pembroke Dock Civil Parish: St Mary Pembroke Ecclesiastical parish: St John Town: Pater County/Island: Pembrokeshire Country: Wales Registration district: Pembroke Sub-registration district: Pembroke ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Household schedule number: 76 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Osmond 39 Ann Osmond 45 Sarah Ann Osmond 8 Thomas Belt 24 Mary Ann James 21 Rose
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7 Dec 2010 08:17 |
Where is William in 1901? That census should list his date of birth.
Rose
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7 Dec 2010 08:22 |
Assume this must be the one? Birth year is listed as 1874 here and in 1911:
1901 Census of Canada about H William Foster Name: H William Foster Gender: Male Marital Status: Married Age: 26 Birth Day & Month: 6 Sep Birth Year: 1874 Birthplace: England Relation to Head of House: Head Immigration Year: 1884 Racial or Tribal Origin: England (English) Nationality: Canadian Religion: Methodist Occupation: Butcher Province: Ontario District: Peterborough (East/est) District Number: 106 Sub-District: Otonabee Sub-District Number: U-2 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age H William Foster 26 Jane Foster 21 Aurther J Foster 3 William F Foster 1 Rose
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7 Dec 2010 08:24 |
Marriage:
Ontario, Canada Marriages, 1801-1926 about William Henry Foster Name: William Henry Foster Spouse Name: Jennie Shearer Marriage Date: 23 Nov 1897 Marriage Location: Otonabee Registration Number: 55131 Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS932_93 Rose
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Sue
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7 Dec 2010 13:58 |
Rose,
Thanks for the assistance. My apologies for not answering straight away, but I posted the message around 1:30 am our time, and retired for the night shortly thereafter. The marriage of Wm Henry Foster and Jennie Shearer is, indeed, my grandparents. The 1901 Canadian census listing is them, as well. The marriage registration for Marion James and Joseph Clark is the correct one.
In thinking about the Pembroke listing from 1871, her father's name and occupation are correct. However, I have spoken to a number of my aunts and uncles in the past, and no-one remembers any reference to Marion having any siblings. Whether that is because there were none, or because she fell out with them and did not mention them, I do not know. Her mother's name was always said to be Jane; I raised the Pembroke possibility because of the sister's name being Jane, rather than the mother's. Those are the only 2 Wm James I was able to find who were in the carpentry trade.
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7 Dec 2010 20:28 |
Sue,
You need put aside all the information you have that has been passed down by word of mouth. Typically, it's highly inaccurate and there's not Spencer, Flora or Matthew anywhere on Ancestry.
Did you see my earlier comment that William was born in 1874? Marion is listed as being from England in 1891.
Rose
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7 Dec 2010 20:38 |
I can't see Joseph in Beaverton in 1881. Can you list the results? In 1901, his year of immigration is listed as 1883.
Rose
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Sue
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7 Dec 2010 20:58 |
Have you been able to find any information with respect to the Foster family (Spencer, Flora, and Matthew)?
Sue
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Sue
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7 Dec 2010 21:01 |
Re Joseph - I found him listed in Ontario County, District 100, which is Beaverton, or close to it.
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Sue
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7 Dec 2010 21:13 |
I have Marion's death certificate, which indicates that she is from Wales.
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Sue
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7 Dec 2010 21:49 |
I note that District 100 in the 1881 census is not correlated with Ontario County; it is, however, in the 1891 census. It therefore appears that I have recorded Joseph P. Clark in Canada in 1881 erroneously.
I don't recall having been able to find him on any of the census documents, perhaps because he was a sailor all his life.
I also have the ship's passenger list for Marion and Joseph Jr. They arrived in Canada on September 13, 1884. Joseph Jr. is listed as age 11 - which is likely where I got 1873 for the year of his birth.
I also note that my grandmother named two of her children after what she thought were their forebears - Andrew Rufus Foster, and Stanley Spencer Foster. It would seem that both she and my grandfather took Marion's word for who the forebears were, although I have wondered, from time to time, whether that was only partially, or perhaps not at all, true. I know that my grandfather told my mother that he remembered, as a little boy, his grandfather, a tall, kindly, white-haired man, coming to visit, taking him for a walk, and holding his hand and pointing out the various constellations in the stars. That was in England, before Marion and he left for Canada. But that is all I know.
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Sue
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7 Dec 2010 23:48 |
Rose, I just found the following record on Ancestry.
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Joseph Henry James Name: Joseph Henry James Record Type: Baptism Estimated Birth Date: abt 1875 Baptism Date: 19 Mar 1875 Father's name: William James Mother's name: Marian James Parish or Poor Law Union: Battersea St Mary Borough: Wandsworth
The actual entry on the page indicates that his date of birth was Sept 6 1874; it states that his father, William was a "traveller". Address is 52 Henry St., Battersea, Wandsworth, Surrey. Even more interesting is the entry immediately above it, which lists the baptism of a Richard George Baker on the same date, born Feb 11 1874, son of Richard George and Elizabeth Baker, bricklayer, living at 52 Henry St., Battersea. Richard George the father was born in 1854, and is the son of Richard and Naomi Baker. Naomi is Joseph Portine Clark's sister. The story is getting even more interesting ...
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8 Dec 2010 01:17 |
William/Joseph registered her death. The information about Wales would have come from what he knew, so might not be accurate.
Rose
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Sue
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8 Dec 2010 01:23 |
True enough.
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8 Dec 2010 08:15 |
Can't see a James birth registered in Wandsworth district that would fit. Of course, 6 months have passed since his birth so he could have been born anywhere.
Rose
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Sue
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8 Dec 2010 11:10 |
I was always told that he was born in Chelsea, England. Interestingly, when looking on Ancestry last evening, I found a couple of William James (the name of Marion's father) who had died in Chelsea, in the right time period. Not sure yet if there's a connection ...
Sue
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mgnv
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9 Dec 2010 10:00 |
Jos Clark 1891 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1891/pdf/30953_148159-00497.pdf
1901 Census of Canada Page Information District: ON PETERBOROUGH (East/Est) (#106) Subdistrict: Otonabee U-2 Page 4 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000096118.pdf
The above search at AG showed Line 29: Researcher contact: Joan McCrory: This is my husband's great grandfather More etc - the email addy is 14m old - I don't know if it's still active. http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/index.html
1901 Sched 2 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000096112.pdf [addy=Conc 2 Lot 22 - it's a rented 6 room Wood house on 1/4 acre]
For a concession map, see: http://digital.library.mcgill.ca/countyatlas/images/maps/townshipmaps/pet-m-otonabee.jpg So the village of Villiers is on Villiers Line between conc 2 & 3 on lot 16 just S of route 2. Thus, he lived a couple of miles N on Villiers line or maybe on the next line road to the E.
1901 Census of Canada Page Information District: ON ONTARIO (North/Nord) (#97) Subdistrict: Beaverton (Village) A Page 1 13 3 Clark Joesph M Head M Mar 3 1831 70 14 3 Clark Liza J F Wife M Feb 6 1844 57 15 3 Barker Margaret F Mother W May 10 1817 84 16 3 Goodwin Catherine F Lodger W Nov 29 1835 65 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000088402.pdf
Sched 2 http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000088398.pdf [addy=South Simcoe - it's an owned 5 room Brick house on 1/2 acre] http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1901/z/z002/z000088398.pdf
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mgnv
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9 Dec 2010 10:03 |
I don't know if this is anything to do with your mob:
20457-1922 Donald McCRORY, 30, Miner, Ireland, Timmins, s/o Donald McCRORY (b. Ireland) & Rose CONROY, married Mary Bell FOSTER, 22, Peterborough, Thornloe, d/o William H. FOSTER (b. Ireland) & Jean SHEARER, Wtn. Nellie & Frank FOSTER, both of Thornloe, on Nov. 1, 1922 at Thornloe
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onvsr/
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