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Annie Graver, nee Jones

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Sheila

Sheila Report 12 Feb 2011 19:53

Having obtained my grandmother's birth certificate I now know that her mother's maiden name was Annie Jones.... there are thousands of them! I splashed out £9 on a marriage certificate for Charles Graver [born abt 1846, Foulsham, Norfolk] and Annie Jones [born abt 1847] ; I don't know if it is the right one, but the date [May 1873] fits with the birth of their first child Charles Frederick Graver [1874], groom's occupation of gardener is right, groom's father John Graver, gardener right too. The bride's father is given as Frederick Jones, Farmer.

The marriage took place in Withington, Lancs.May 1873. I can't put either of them in Lancashire in 1871 ish; I suppose they would both be in service; he was from Norfolk, Annie from Wales. Charles leaves the family home in Foulsham some time after the 1861 census when he was living with his parents John and Pleasance; he reappears with his wife and 3 children living in Hale, Cheshire in 1881. His wife Annie's birthplace is given as Llandulas, North Wales in 1881, as Llandudno in 1891, North Wales, Llandillas [?] in 1901 and in 1911 as..... Wales.

I'm wondering whether I can get any further back with Annie Jones, daughter of Frederick, or not.

There are, incidentally, two men with the name of Charles Graver born at roughly the same time in Norfolk. One has the middle name of D[h]agless, but that name does not appear on my grandmother's birth certificate, nor on her father's marriage certificate. It's obvious looking at some of the public family trees on the ancestry site that some people have got the Charles Gravers mixed up!

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 12 Feb 2011 20:10

EDIT sorry, I see you have this already!

From what you say in the first paragraph I would say you almost certainly have the correct marriage cert, given the occupations. Here they are in 1911, which if accurate places their marriage around 1874 (I think - not too hot on maths!):

GRAVER, Charles Head Married
37 years M 65 1846 Gardener Domestic Foulsham Norfolk VIEW
GRAVER, Annie Wife Married F 65 1846 Wales VIEW
GRAVER, Gladys Daughter Single F 21 1890 Dressmaker Hale Cheshire VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
21588 Reference:
RG14PN21588 RG78PN1286 RD445 SD5 ED1 SN39

Registration District:
Bucklow Sub District:
Knutsford Enumeration District:
1 Parish:
Knutsford

Address:
Chelford Road Knutsford County:
Cheshire

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 12 Feb 2011 20:15

I think this is him - a gardener:

1871 England Census

Name: Charles Graver
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: Newchurch
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Haslingden
Sub-registration district: Newchurch

John B Phillips 55
Mary A Phillips 49
George H Phillips 21
Edward L Phillips 20
Grace A Phillips 17
Charles Graver 35
Mary Taylor 25
Kate Rule 20

Astra

Astra Report 12 Feb 2011 20:22

Annie??

Annie Jones
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Wales
Civil Parish: Chorlton On Medlock
Ecclesiastical parish: Longsight St John and St Stephan
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Chorlton upon Medlock
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 76
Household Members: Name Age
Henrietta J Bayley 53
Henry O Bayley 24
Charles S Bayley 22
Catherine Quail 28
Annie Jones 24

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 12 Feb 2011 20:23

You are right, there are about 5 Charles Gravers. You are very fortunate that yours left Norfolk (is that allowed, ha ha) and had a distinctive occupation!
jan

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 12 Feb 2011 20:34

Just a possible - St. Asaph covers LLandullas. Father is an agricultual labourer, not very helpful:

1851 Wales Census

Name: Ann Jones
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Frederick Jones
Mother's name: Jane Jones

Where born: Bettws, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Bettws
Town: Bodlyman
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: St Asaph
Sub-registration district: Abergele

Frederick Jones 38 Where born: Llangerniew, Denbighshire, Wales
Jane Jones 39 Where born: Abergele, Denbighshire, Wales
Elizabeth Jones 7
Ann Jones 5
Sarah Jones 2

Sheila

Sheila Report 12 Feb 2011 20:49

Thanks Brummiejan and Astra. I had seen the entry for Charles Graver in the 1871 census - but that one is about 10 years older than 'my' Charles, unless it's a mistake of course! Isn't it frustrating?
Yes; 5 Charles Gravers.... and several dozen Annie Jones!

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 12 Feb 2011 20:54

OOPS! But to be honest, i would be fairly confident it is him - what are the chances of another Charles Graver, gardener from Norfolk, living in Lancashire?? Odds are the age is just recorded wrongly, as he is a mere servant!
Jan

Sheila

Sheila Report 12 Feb 2011 21:06

I was thinking that might be the case Jan... I intend to list all my live-in staff very carefully in the 2011 census...

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 12 Feb 2011 21:45

Me too (yeah, right!).