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Joseph Sydney came from the Bow area of London in the 1900's. He worked for Charles Williams Clothiers until they got bombed down in the war. From approx 1942 he moved to Nottingham premises for a few years. We think after the war he may have gone back to Bow, London or Strood, Rochester (where the clothing factory relocated). He was a stockkeeper in the Cotton office. The company was owned by Jewish family, the Lazarus Brothers. It was then called the Guards when it moved to Strood. Does anyone know him? He is my mothers father - my mother was adopted in 1943 along with her twin sister (they were separated) and found each other at the age of 17! Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks

Is this his birth and death

Birth
Name: Joseph Sydney Williams
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: West Ham
County: Essex, Greater London
Volume: 4a
Page: 287

Death
Name: Joseph Sydney Williams
Birth Date: 11 Jun 1908
Death Registration Month/Year: Dec 1985
Age at death (estimated): 77
Registration district: Havering
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 13
Page: 91

Yes

Maybe this is him

1911
WILLIAMS JOSEPH S - M - 1909 - 2 - West Ham Essex

I don't have full access to the family details but hopefully someone else will.

1911

WILLIAMS, John Head Married M 41 1870 House Painter Mile End Old Town VIEW
WILLIAMS, Emily Elenor Wife F 38 1873 Mile End VIEW
WILLIAMS, Lillian Ruth Daughter Single F 16 1895 Machinist Mile End VIEW
WILLIAMS, Florence Victoria Daughter F 12 1899 School Mile End VIEW
WILLIAMS, Arthur James Son M 9 1902 School Mile End VIEW
WILLIAMS, George R Son M 5 1906 School East Ham Essex VIEW
WILLIAMS, Joseph S Son M 2 1909 East Ham Essex VIEW
WILLIAMS, John T Son M 1 1910 East Ham Essex VIEW

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
9561 Reference:
RG14PN9561 RG78PN510A RD188 SD6 ED5 SN348

Registration District:
West Ham Sub District:
North East Ham Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
East Ham

Address:
57 Cromwell Road Forest Gate County:
Essex

(says married 19yrs, 9 children born, 7 living)

Chris :)

Thanks Chris.

This looks like the marriage for the parents above

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1891 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>Arthur Emily Eleanor Mile End 1c 831
Harrington Kate Mile End 1c 831
Ridley Stephen Mile End 1c 831
>>>>>>>>>>Williams John Mile End 1c 831

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1872
Arthur Emily Eleanor - Stepney 1c 503

Kim, if Joseph Sydney married your grandmother you need to get the marriage certificate to verify that his father was John, a painter so you know this is the correct family.

Im amased as to how you found all this, im so greatful! I need to digest it all and then think on my next move. Its a bit tricky as my mother was born in 1943 along with her twin sister. Both were given up for adoption, to separate parents in Nottingham. They know from their adoption birth certs that the father named them but we also know both mother Florence Alexina Carley and Joseph Sydney Williams were married to other people (they came together whilst in the war in 1942 when the company they worked for took them to Nottingham). We found Florence's details last year and and met the family - what an experience after 67 years of not knowing where they came from. Unfortunately for my mother and aunt their parents have died - dob's being the turn of the century but knowing who they were and their families now is what my mother needs to find out. I need to find out somewhere on this Joseph Sydney that he was a stockkeeper or similar, but then that was war time and after the war would have taken on a different job.

It may be a letter to the family to see what comes up I think. Probably our only way of finding out. This is what we had to do for her mother. K

do you mind me asking how you found this out? ive been looking in all places to find only minimal amount of information! Id be interested so I know where I was going wrong ....

His birth was easy enough to find on freebmd
LINK
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

1911 census is free to search but you need a subscription to then see the fuller details

Chris, can I ask what the reference numbers are after the list of family names above RG nos. Thanks

RG = Registrar General (the person responsible for taking the censuses)

PN = Piece Number (a piece is usually a box or bundle of documents)

RD = Registration District

SD = Sub-District

ED = Enumeration District (the area that a single enumerator would cover)

SN = Schedule Number


Census Series Codes
Here are the department series codes used by The National Archives to catalog the census. The letters 'HO' stand for 'Home Office' and the letters 'RG refer to the 'General Register Office.' Both were government departments responsible for collecting census data at different times. These numbers are written on the bottom or side of each census page. They are used in census indexes, in combination with enumeration district numbers and page and folio numbers, to help you find a family or address in the census.

1841 census: HO 107
1851 census: HO 107
1861 census (RG 9)
1871 census (RG 10)
1881 census (RG 11)
1891 census (RG 12)
1901 census (RG 13)
1911 census (RG 14)

Hoping the above might explain things Kim :-)

(the one I posted came from Find My Past, but those reference numbers should find it if used on another site, I hope!)

Chris :)

(not the best person for technicals, lol)

Thanks, appreciate the explanation. I really do. Have a good weekend (it is the weekend here, in Abu Dhabi! Fri and Sat - im researching from here to not the best place to trace info