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Kate James 1896 - 1970 and her sister Lilian 1894 - 1985 both married Canadian men before WW11 in Toronto. Kate Dale had three children Diddy, Martha (who married a man called Harmen Van Der Meer) and Frederick. Lilian Lacey had two children Pearl (who married Bruce Chapman) and Ivan.

I have no idea how to trace these relatives now. They all lived in Toronto could anyone please give me some advice.

Many thanks

It turns out Van der Meer is a lot more common a surname here than I expected. ;)

http://www.canada411.ca/search/si/1/van+der+meer/-

83 listings, one of them an H, but no F/Frederick. Did Diddy happen to hae a real name? ;)

Any listing with a 416 or 905 area code will be in Toronto or in the area around it.

Try just googling names. Use www.google.ca, and once you have results, select "pages from Canada" on the left.

If I'm following, Kate Dale and Lilian Lacey's children would likely have been born in the 1920s-30s-ish? By WWII they would both have been in their mid-late 40s.

So the children themselves may not be living now.

It strikes me that Ivan Lacey wouldn't be too common a name.

http://calendar.county.simcoe.on.ca/partners/newteclib/history/database/0031_5.html

Book referring to a boy with that name in 1941. The place is Beeton, which I've never heard of, but it's in Simcoe County -- not too far north of Toronto, in what was then farmland but is within commuting distance of the city.

Not much help, I fear.

I have an address for Diddy and her husband Elwood Gould which is Sandhill Road, Seeley's Bay, Kingston and I know Harmen Van Der Meer came from Beeton.

Thanks for your PM - it's always okay just to reply in the thread!

So it looks like that was the Ivan Lacey in question. It's possible the family would still be in that area, but maybe not likely, given mobility here and the tendency to move to urban centres.

Same with Seeley's Bay -- the next generation would likely have moved away. But it's always worth seeing even whether the current owners might have any info!

Dale, James Fredrick

It is with great sadness and sorrow, in our hearts, that his family announces the passing of James Fredrick (Fred) Dale, in his 84th year at Stevenson Memorial Hospital on April 5th, 2004 with his family by his side. He fought a courageous battle with cancer. Fred is survived by his beloved wife Nora Rogerson Dale (in their 60th year of marriage). Pre-deceased by his daughter Joyce Dermott and Stan, his son Harold (Boonie) and his sister Martha. Loving father of Sheila and John Dermott, Jim and Lynn Dale and Rick and Brenda Dale. He will be sadly missed by his 13 grandchildren and their spouses and his 8 great-grandchildren. Dear brother of Diddy and Elwood Gould and Joe and Betty Dale and their families. Fred, a lifetime resident of Beeton, was born in the village of Beeton on August 13th, 1920. He served overseas for 6 years in the RCAF 420 during World War II, was a Charter and Life Member of the Beeton Legion Branch 421 for 58 years and a member of the Beeton Fire Department for 45 years.
Resting at Rod Abrams Funeral Home, 1666 Tottenham Road, Tottenham, 905-936-3477 on Friday April 9th, 2004, from 2-4 and 7-9 pm. Funeral service will be held in the chapel 11:00 am Saturday April 10th, 2004. Interment Beeton Trinity Cemetery. Legion service in the chapel 10:30 am Saturday prior to funeral service. In memory of Fred, the family would appreciate donations to the Palliative Care Unit at Stevenson Memorial Hospital or the Cancer Society. A special thank-you to Rev. Mark Stacey for his consoling words and prayers, the Bayshore Nurses and staff for their months of support of Fred and Nora at home and the nurses at Stevenson Memorial for all their help during his last days.

And his wife:

Dale: Nora
(Veteran WWII, Life Member of Beeton Legion Branch 421 and Charter Life Member Ladies Auxiliary)

It is with great sadness and sorrow in our hearts, that her family announces the passing of Nora Dale, in her 85th year at Headwaters Health Care Centre, Orangeville on Wednesday December 6th, 2006 with her family by her side. Nora Rogerson beloved wife of the late James Fredrick (Fred) Dale (2004). Predeceased by her daughter Joyce Dermott (1999) and Stan (1991) and her son Harold (Boonie) (1988). Daughter of the late Harold (1985) & Mary Ellen (Dutton)(1969) Rogerson, England. Loving mother of Sheila and John Dermott, Jim and Lynn Dale, Rick & Brenda Dale. She will be sadly missed by her 13 grandchildren and their spouses, and her 11 great grandchildren.
Dayle & Pat McQuoid (Kathleen & Olivia), Kevin Dermott (Krista, Scott, Michelle & Annie), Debbie & Dan Robson (Amanda & Dani), Victor Dermott, Brenda Dermott & Vaun Rutledge (Brodi), Jamie Dermott, Bobbie-Jo & Brent Miller (Gavin & Brooklyn) Sarah Dale, Ryan Dale, Mike Dale & Alex Dale, Steve Dale, Shawn Dale & Carolina.
Survived by her brother Arthur and his wife Heather Rogerson of Kent England.
Born at Miles Green, Staffordshire England Oct 16, 1922.Retired (1979) office employee of Borden Metal Products, Beeton. War Bride arrived in Beeton September 13, 1946.
Dark Clouds Turned Bright
Resting at Rod Abrams Funeral Home, 1666 Tottenham Rd., Tottenham, (905) 936-3477 on Sunday December 10, 2006 from 2-4 and 7-9 pm. Funeral service will be held in the chapel at 2:30pm on Monday December 11, 2006. Internment Trinity Cemetery Beeton.
In memory of Nora, her family would appreciate donations to the charity of your choice

Remember I said "google"? I googled Elwood's name.

Sad news, unfortunately, but it is obituaries that tend to show up on line.


http://www.rodabramsfuneralhome.com/tag/dale/

Dale, James Fredrick

It is with great sadness and sorrow, in our hearts, that his family announces the passing of James Fredrick (Fred) Dale, in his 84th year at Stevenson Memorial Hospital on April 5th, 2004 with his family by his side. ... [I omit names of living people] >> Pre-deceased by his daughter Joyce Dermott and Stan, his son Harold (Boonie) and his sister Martha. Dear brother of Diddy and Elwood Gould and Joe and Betty Dale and their families. Fred, a lifetime resident of Beeton, was born in the village of Beeton on August 13th, 1920.


That is recent enough that I expect the funeral home might still be able to contact the family on your behalf.


http://www.innisfilscope.com/news/2006-06-14/Obituaries/

GOULD, LILLIAN GEORGINA
2006-06-14 / Obituaries

Peacefully at St. Mary's of the Lake Hospital on MOnday, June 5, 2006 in her 81st year. Mrs. Lillian Georgina Gould (nee Dale) of Kingston, beloved wife of 63 years to Elwood Gould. Loving mother of ... . Will be lovingly remembered by her grandchildren, great grandchildren, nieces and nephews. ... Predeceased by her parents, 2 brothers and 1 sister.


This is from a newsletter from L'Arche, an organization founded by the son of former Governor General Vanier that works with adults with intellectual disabilities:

http://www.larchelondon.org/images/Spring06.pdf.

His understanding of the profound connections we make with one another was shared with me in this personal anecdote:

"As I child I was asked to help a palsied, somewhat fearsome (at least to a six year old child) man we knew as Mr. Gould, go door-to-door as he sold his Regal Catalogue Christmas ornaments. I had difficulty understanding him because of his challenged, garbled speech. He also had great difficulty walking, taking tortured step after tortured step as we made our way along his route. Then all of a sudden, he seemed to disappear from the neighbourhood and I often wondered what had become of him. I found my answer in our family living room.

Debbie, then my fiancée, while observing our Regal decorations on our Christmas tree, recounted how as a seniors home caregiver in her home-town of Belleville, more than a hundred miles away, she had cared for a man called Elwood Gould, who she understood had sold them when he used to live in Toronto. She had grown quite attached to him. We were both stunned and elated. Our connections are indeed profound. Thereafter, we visited Elwood every Christmas when we visited Debbie's family. I am thankful that before he passed away, my children had the opportunity to befriend him."

Well, as I was googling ...

But I was taking the time to delete **names of living people** ... especially children.

MadBull??? (sorry, it wasn't Mike, edited. ;) )

Also -- it's best to give the links to things so people can go there themselves; that makes it unnecessary to copy details like names of living people.

JC, I don't understand your taking time to delete the names of living people when it's already freely available online.

Oh well, no need to understand, I guess.

The rule of this board is no details about living people.

Many things are freely available on line -- but NOT in the context in which they would appear at this site.

Threads at this site often contain information about people's families that they would not necessarily want third parties to find by googling.

That likely isn't the case here, but the rule is nonetheless a sensible one and there's no reason at all for breaking it when all that has to be done is provide the *link* to the information, as I have done. It's freely available on line, right?

(For children, it's up to parents whether they want their names being put on the internet; I don't think we need to make the decision for them to publish their names on this site, and in fact I think we should not.)

Is it that difficult to edit them out?

Madbull and JaneyCanuck thank you both so much for all the help you have given. After reading Janey's original message I too had googled and found the obituaries for both Fred (I now know his birth name to be James Fredrick which is a very common name linked into our family) and Nora (Rogerson) Dale. I too had discovered through the Radio Ham info connected with Elwood that his wife's real name was Lillian not Diddy. Lillian was obviously named after Kate's (Diddy's mother) sister. Kate and Lillian were the two sisters who left England and married Canadians. I am still trying to find out the christian name of Mr Dale who married Lillian.

I cant thank you both enough for all you have done. My mother turned 80 last week and wants to re connect with her Canadian relatives. Unfortunately Pearl Chapman (nee Lacey) and her husband Bruce Chapman died and I have been unable to locate much information regarding Pearl's brother Ivan Lacey. I have found he married a Blanche Markle and had three children Scott, Sharon and Mark.

Once again many thanks

I kept meaning to mention -- my family in Ontario has Chapmans: my grandfather's older sister married one, so her kids were my mum's first cousins, and I knew one of them quite well while I was growing up. They were longer rooted in Ontario than my family (my grandparents on that side immigrated as children 1905-1908). You never know, we might turn out to be related by a couple of marriages. ;)

If you check at the canada411 site where the Dale listings I sent you are, you'll find there is also a Chapman listing in Beeton that could be worth a contact too. There are undoubtedly recent arrivals in Beeton, as people move to bedroom communities outside Toronto, but the total population is under 4000, and I'd think the two rural Dale listings are pretty likely to be connected with Fred's family.