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I am desperately trying to find any information relating to my grandfather John Baker.
All I know of his birth is that he was born approx 1869.
His date of death was 11th March 1933 in Ilford, Essex. He enlisted in the army aged 45 and served in the Gloucestershire Regiment in the 1914-1918 war. He was discharged after becoming ill while serving in France in 1918.
When he enlisted, he gave an address in Midsomer Norton, Somerset. I have had a search done but no trace of him there.
He was with my grandmother, Alice May Simmonds but they never married as far as I know as she never divorced her first husband, George Thorogood. They had 4 children together, Frederick John, Lillian, Charles and my father Henry.
Thank you

Do you know what his civilian occupation was?

What details to you have regarding your Grandmother?

Do you know when and where the children were born?

MARRAIGE FOR ALICE AND GEORGE
BMD Search result details

Civil Registration event: Marriage
Name: SIMMONDS, Alice May
Registration District: Help Romford
County: Essex
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: Help 4A
Page No: Help 865
MarriageFinder™: Alice May Simmonds married one of the following people Help


JONES, Albert George view record


THOROGOOD, George view record

He was a 'Boot Repairer', this is the occupation put down on his death certificate.

My grandmother was born in Brighton on 15th June 1888, her parents were Alfred Edwin Simmonds and Sabina Esther Steer. She had 2 sisters, Esther Mary and Ruth Elizabeth. She also had 2 brothers, Henry Thomas and Alfred Edwin.
She had 6 children with her first husband, George Thorogood. They lived in Ilford, Essex.

Is this Alice in 1911 please?

HOUSEHOLD THOROGOOD ALICE F 1889 22 Romford Essex

Living with some of these people?

HOUSEHOLD THOROGOOD ALFRED M 1893 18 Romford Essex
HOUSEHOLD THOROGOOD DAVID M 1857 54 Romford Essex
HOUSEHOLD THOROGOOD EMMA F 1858 53 Romford Essex
HOUSEHOLD THOROGOOD GEORGE M 1883 28 Romford Essex
HOUSEHOLD THOROGOOD GERTRUDE F 1888 23 Romford Essex
HOUSEHOLD THOROGOOD VIOLET F 1910 1 Romford Essex
HOUSEHOLD THOROGOOD WALTER M 1895 16 Romford Essex

1911 FOR ALICE
Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

THOROGOOD, George Husband Married M 28 1883 General Labourer Romford Essex VIEW
THOROGOOD, Alice Wife Married
1 years F 22 1889 Brighton Sussex VIEW
THOROGOOD, Violet Daughter F 1 1910 Ilford Essex VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
9906 Reference:
RG14PN9906 RG78PN521B RD191 SD2 ED57 SN192

Registration District:
Romford Sub District:
Ilford Enumeration District:
57 Parish:
Ilford

Address:
9 Cross Road Chadwell Heath County:
Essex

Births Sep 1912 THOROGOOD Arthur E Simmonds Romford 4a 1055
Births Mar 1915 Thorogood Lucy M Simmonds Romford 4a 1116
Births Mar 1917 Thorogood Rose F Simmonds Romford 4a 907
Births Jun 1920 Thorogood Bernard G F Simmonds Romford 4a 1220
Births Mar 1922 Thorogood Agnes G Simmonds Romford 4a 1040

Wow, thank you.

Alice and George's first child was called Violet, for some reason she went to live with her grandparents at some point.

From what I have been told, John Baker was a lodger with Alice and George initially. George left Alice and she stayed with John Baker. Their last know address was 66 Fencepiece Road, Ilford, Essex.
I have managed to find John's death and some army information, but cannot find where and when he was born at all so cannot go back any further with him which is very frustrating.

I really appreciate your help, thank you.

Had your Grandfather been married before too?

This man (from the Military Records on Ancestry) was married in 1905.

Name: John Baker
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Age at enlistment: 19
Birth Parish: Woodman Road
Birth County: Essex
Document Year: 1889
Regimental Number: 74465
Regiment Name: Royal Artillery
Number of images: 9


The above man had a scar on the index finger of his left hand and a wart on the left side of his neck.

He also seems to have enlisted as Frederick John Baker.


Sorry I have to sign off now but will try to catch up later.

Not sure if this helps.
Births Sep 1869 (>99%)
Baker John Edgar Clutton 5c 623

Clutton includes Midsomer Norton

Thank you rootgatherer for your help, but sadly it's not him.
John Baker's army number was 266445 and from my records he didn't enlist until he was 45 years old, which is strange in itself.

Pam, I have John Edgar's birth certificate, but again sadly it's not him, but thank you.

This is what I don't understand, I just cannot find anything about John Baker before he met my grandmother. I don't know why he was in the Gloucestershire Regiment, then ended up as a lodger in Ilford.
I don't know if he was married before he met my grandmother, he was 20 years older than her so it is a possibility.
Everything I have tried has ended up a brick wall.

Carole, I may be wrong but I think that if he enlisted at 45 years of age he may well have been a soldier before. It is also worth noting that if he had served previously he may not neccessarily have had the same service number or even served in the same regiment.

What facts are you using to know that the John Edgar birth certificate is wrong please? Do you know John's father's name? Do you know if John had any siblings? What month did he celebrate his birthday?

Hi,

I had a search done on my behalf with the Somerset County Council regarding John Edgar and nothing linked in to my family.
I don't know any other information about John Baker except his date of death, where he was living at the time and his age at death.
I can't find anything anywhere else that could give me the smallest of clues.
You are right though, he does have 2 army numbers, I have had a search done for both, but sadly his army records were destroyed.
I really don't know what else to try now.
I have only worked out his approx date of birth which is 1869/70 from his death certificate.

Was John named on the birth registrations of his children please? If he was, what was his occupation then?

His occupation on my father's birth certificate was Boot Repairer and Bootmaker (journeyman) on my Uncle's birth certificate.

Hello

I know this is probably of very little help, as you've sort of disregarded this chap as the one you are looking for. But I just had to add that although this man has obviously been asked where he was born and given "Woodman Road" as the location, it is only a street (in what would have ben a very rural area at the time, which it isn't any more ) , not the "parish" as requested.

I noticed the document year is 1889. On the 1891 census records, those people living in Woodman Road, Warley, Brentwood, Essex (there is only one such-named road in Essex, as far as I know) , according to the actual census records, would have been listed as: District: Romford, Hornchurch. Parish: Great Warley. Administrative County: Essex.

I know this is only a tiny detail, but sometimes little anomalies like that make things so much more complicated.


Name: John Baker
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Age at enlistment: 19
Birth Parish: Woodman Road
Birth County: Essex
Document Year: 1889
Regimental Number: 74465
Regiment Name: Royal Artillery
Number of images: 9

In fact, I just searched on that and found that in the 1871 census, a 1-year-old Frederick Baker (as mentioned above) did live in Woodman Road, along with his brother Henry Baker so that is the person which Rootgatherer found. Right. Found *his* parents on another page, who are William H Baker (Bricklayer) aged 24 and Emily Baker aged 22.

So (sorry if I've gone right off tangent as I have such a headache!) but that's Frederick (John) Baker's parents and his brother Henry, if that helps at all, even if it's to discount him completely.

Hope your search proves successful!

Julie

I've found Frederick John in 1911 in Falmouth.

In 1911 census records, look up Frederick John Baker, living in Falmouth, born in Brentwood.

He had a wife, Magdaline and children, Dorothy, Charles, Mona and Gladys.

Clerk Employed By The Cornwall L T D
Industry Territorial Force

Does that make any more sense?

Julie