Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
Lesley
|
Report
|
21 Jan 2013 14:06 |
Hi I have just seen this while looking for something else! We are vaguely related as William's father, James, was elder brother to my gggf , John Orrell 1785-1848. I don't know whether you have solved the mystery yet! I can be contacted on [email protected] as my genes reunited sub is abt to run out .
Lesley
|
|
wellybobs
|
Report
|
19 Oct 2011 17:12 |
Hi, just got back to this today, many thanks for the info. I have to say that I am leaning towards your idea Mike and mgnv that James Hewett was born to Elizabeth before she married William and he took his name added to Hewett. I have not been able to find a death for William Jnr but I did find him listed as the 1st son of William and Elizabeth, abode Ince and baptized at All Saints Wigan. By the time of the 1841 census he would have been 16 and I suppose it is possible he was working away from the family home, I don't think it was uncommon for this to happen, particularly if they had obtained "a living in" occupation.
|
|
mgnv
|
Report
|
19 Oct 2011 06:42 |
I'm guessing these are your William & his brother John in 1841:
John Orrell abt 1801 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire Alice Orrell abt 1806 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire Elizabeth Orrell abt 1830 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire John Orrell abt 1833 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire Ann Orrell abt 1836 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire James Orrell abt 1840 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire
William Orrell abt 1806 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire Elizabeth Orrell abt 1806 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire James Orrell abt 1826 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire Jane Orrell abt 1831 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire Maryann Orrell abt 1831 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire Elizabeth Orrell abt 1836 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire John Orrell abt 1837 Lancashire, England Wigan , Lancashire [ho107/522/13/10/13]
Baptism: 23 Jul 1837 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England John Orrell - Second Son of William Orrell & Elizabeth Born: 28 May Abode: Ince Occupation: Miner Baptised by: J. K. Glazebrook Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1838, Page 142, Entry 1135 Source: LDS Film 1885678
so we know James wasn't younger than William. I think the obvious conclusion is that James was born James Hewett, and later added his stepfather's surname. I would also guess William Jr has died, although unlike Ellen (the deceased 3rd daur), there's no burial listed at Wigan All Saints.
|
|
lancashireAnn
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 23:56 |
just for interest - on your other post you were looking at the marriage of James' son which was not at that time on lan-opc - it is now
Marriage: 5 Jul 1879 Christ Church, Adlington, Lancashire, England William Orrell - 23 Bookeeper Bachelor of Ince Elizabeth Moss - 22 Weaver Spinster of Adlington Groom's Father: James Orrell, Plate Layer Bride's Father: Thomas Moss, Fireman Witness: James Hampson; Jane Pilkington Married by Banns by: Thos Carpenter Vicar Register: Marriages 1876 - 1886, Page 31, Entry 61 Source: LDS 1526077
|
|
wellybobs
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 20:40 |
Hey you might have something there.
All I know about Elizabeth so far is that she married William Orrell at All Saints Wigan on 30th October,1825. the parish record shows the mark (X) of Elizabeth Hewett of parish of Wigan and they were married by banns.
Thats one to certainly explore a bit further, thanks so much.
|
|
Mike *
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 19:07 |
I keep coming back to this one and wondering where Elizabeth was from prior to marriage?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- JAMES HEWITT Event(s): Birth: 11 JUL 1824 Barker Street Baptist, Nantwich, Cheshire, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Mother: ELIZABETH HEWITT
|
|
wellybobs
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 19:00 |
Hi Mike, thanks for taking the time to look into this I think it is interesting that William Orrell born 5/10/1825 was also baptized some 3 months after he was born and by then his mother Elizabeth and William were married, so it may be possible that he was named Hewett somewhere, but with there being no "register" as such other than parish records I guess I will not find it?? What I am not sure of is why on the census there is no mention of a William who is listed as the 1st son of Elizabeth and William in the parish records. Your theory on the base son of Ann Orrell is interesting but why would they put Hewett as his middle name, which it is on his marriage certificate. I don't mind a mystery so long as I can solve it :-(
|
|
Mike *
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 18:15 |
Stab in the dark ....
Maybe taken into the family from a relation ?
Baptisms: 12 Feb 1826 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England James Orrell - Base Son of Ann Orrell Born: 29 Nov 1825 Abode: Pemberton Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate
Baptised aged almost 3 months
|
|
Mike *
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 18:08 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Born before parents marriage so maybe William was registered as Hewett. . ...
WILLIAM ORRELL Event(s): Birth: 05 OCT 1825 Christening: 08 JAN 1826 Wigan, Lancashire, England Parents: Father: WILLIAM ORRELL Mother: ELIZABETH
--------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WILLIAM ORRELL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages: Spouse: ELIZABETH HEWETT Marriage: 30 OCT 1825 Wigan, Lancashire, England
|
|
wellybobs
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 17:47 |
Hi LA, sorry about that, according to his marriage cert he was resident in Ince in 1854 and it looks as though he stayed in Petticoat lane for most of his life, along with his children after his wife died. Also his occupation is listed as plate layeron his son Williams marriagecert.
My main concern is that he is not named along with his brother John and his sisters at LOPC but the first son for William and Elizabeth is named as William, could the vicar have got confused do you think? as there is no William on any of the census with the same brother and sisters?
|
|
AnnCardiff
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 17:35 |
James Orrell England and Wales Census, 1841 birth: 1826 Lancashire residence: 1841 Bolton,? Lancashire,? England census: 1841 Bolton,? Lancashire,? England name: James Orrell event: Census event date: 1841 gender: Male age: 15 birthplace: Lancashire record type: Household registration district: Bolton sub-district: Sharples civil parish: Bolton county: Lancashire
|
|
AnnCardiff
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 17:34 |
James Orrell England and Wales Census, 1861 birth: 1826 Halliwell,? Lancashire residence: 1861 Halliwell,? Lancashire,? England census: 1861 Halliwell,? Lancashire,? England name: James Orrell event: Census event date: 1861 gender: Male age: 35 relationship to head of household: Son birthplace: Halliwell, Lancashire record type: Household registration district: Bolton sub-district: 4 Halliwell ecclesiastical parish: St Peters civil parish: Halliwell county: Lancashire
|
|
AnnCardiff
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 17:34 |
James Orrell England and Wales Census, 1861 birth: 1826 Lamberhead Green,? Lancashire residence: 1861 Haydock,? Lancashire,? England census: 1861 Haydock,? Lancashire,? England name: James Orrell event: Census event date: 1861 gender: Male age: 35 relationship to head of household: Head birthplace: Lamberhead Green, Lancashire record type: Household registration district: Warrington sub-district: 1 Newton-In-Mackerfield ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas Ashton civil parish: Haydock county: Lancashire
|
|
AnnCardiff
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 17:32 |
1826 dob on the 11881 census
James ORRELL Head W Male 55 Wigan, Lancashire, England Platelayer On Ry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 2 Petticoat Lane Top End Vally Census Place Ince In Makerfield, Lancashire, England Family History Library Film 1341903 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 3777 / 122 Page Number 61
|
|
AnnCardiff
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 17:32 |
where in Lancashire please?
|
|
wellybobs
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2011 17:24 |
Hello Everyone, not been on the boards for a little while. I am hoping you can help me, I kept hitting brick walls with the Duckworths,etc so decided to go back to the "other side" of my tree and try to find details on Elizabeth Hewett, but got myself hooked on her son James as I cannot find his birth. This is linked to a previous post, (I tell you that before someone else does!!).the URL is as follows: http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/ancestors/orrell/thread 1181735 My problem is that when I looked at the 1841 and 1851 census Elizabeth and her husband William Orrell are there with their children, one of which is listed as James c 1825/26. But when I go into Lancashire on line parish records I find all the children listed except James and that the 1st son of Elizabeth and William is given as William born 5/10/1825 I know that Elizabeth and William were married 30/10/1825 but I cannot find any record of a James Hewett Orrell. That is the name on his marriage cert to Elizabeth Livsey and his father is listed as William Orrell. Any ideas would be welcome, I don't think I have gone down the wrong track because everything following on from this seems to fit but any help you can give will be much appreciated. Many thanks. M.
|