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Births Jun 1866 (>99%)
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Welsh Robert Chorlton 8c 664

Births Dec 1862 (>99%)
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WELCH Mary Jane Chorlton 8c 61[_4]

1871??

Name: Edward Welch
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Welch
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
Edward Welch 49
Mary Welch 46
William Welch 10
Mary Welch 7
Rob Welch 4

Name: Robert Welch
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 04 Jan 1868
Baptism/Christening Place: Hulme (near Manchester), Lancashire, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Edward Welch
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Margaret Tomlinson
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01644-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 2113128
Reference Number: 341

Name: Mary Jane Welch
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 19 Jan 1868
Baptism/Christening Place: Hulme (near Manchester), Lancashire, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Edward Welch
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Margaret Tomlinson
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01644-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 2113128
Reference Number: 339

These dates of baptisms do not mean they were babies at that time

the only William & Sarah Smith I can find on the 1881 census is this one, but Sarah was born 1856/7

William SMITH Head M Male 25 Manchester, Lancashire, England Painter
Sarah A. SMITH Wife M Female 24 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife
Henry SMITH Son U Male 4 Salford, Lancashire, England
Ann SMITH Daur U Female 1 Salford, Lancashire, England
Henry SMITH Father W Male 53 Cowling, York, England Shoe Maker
Mary J. WELCH Boarder U Female 19 Hulme, Lancashire, England Factory Operative

Source Information:
Dwelling 114 Granville St
Census Place Salford, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341949
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3975 / 49
Page Number 17

Sarah actually married in Manchester not Salford

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1875
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
SMITH William WALSH Sarah A Manchester Cathedral (formerly Manchester Collegiate Church) Manchester CATH/208/496

have you got that certificate to give you the details of father etc

Thats what I have been saying she was baptised Welch she is on the census as Welch how do you know her birth was not registered as Welch??

Same as Margaret Ellen... her birth is registered as Walsh...surely a death registered as Welsh could well be her rather than her parents living in Liverpool for a while for no apparant reason

No....she was sarah ann walsh...she married william smith in 1875 in salford....somrtimes the name is mis-transcribed.

Is that not Sarah's birth that I gave you then in the name of Welch?

Any thoughts on Matilda?

i never did manage to track them down on 1851 census due to the name transcriptions....The first one is correct....never was able to get hold of sarahs ann's birth certificate eigther or her other siblings.William
.Robert and Mary jane....i applied to the GRO several times for three year searches to be made (that was when the service was avaiable) but they never was able to find Sarahs birth info...sarah ann died in 1931 in salford age 76yrs old...would that mean tat she was never rgistered

Shame the age at death were not entered on the index's back then

??

Deaths Dec 1853 (99%)
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Welsh Margaret Ellen Chorlton 8c 312
Welsh Margaret Ellen Chorlton 8c 382

If your ancestor is Walsh why are you tracing Welch?

Also wondering about 3 year old Matilda have you been able to find her birth or baptism? There seems to be quite a few baptisms for this family but not seeing one for Matilda

Could she be Margaret?

The 1851 census was taken on the 30th March so Margaret would have been 3 when it was taken

1851

Name: Edward Welch
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret Welch
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
Edward Welch 24
Margaret Welch 23
Matilda Welch 3
Sarah Welch 10/12

1861

Name: Sarah A Welch
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward Welch
Mother's Name: Margaret Welch
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Hulme
Edward Welch 30
Margaret Welch 34
Sarah A Welch 6
William Welch 1
William Powell 40

So what is their name Welch or Walsh??

Births Sep 1854 (>99%)
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Welch Sarah Ann Chorlton 8c 558

and Margaret

Name: Margaret Ellen Walsh
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 25 Jul 1847
Baptism/Christening Place: St George's, Hulme near Manchester, Lancashire, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Edward Walsh
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Margaret Tomlinson
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01641-4
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 2113127
Reference Number:

Is this it?

Name: Sarah Ann Welch
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 02 Apr 1855
Baptism/Christening Place: St. George, Hulme, Lancashire, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Edward Welch
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Margaret Tomlinson
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01641-7
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 2113127
Reference Number: yr 1855 p 83
.

Hi...Re: sarah ann walsh..i found details for both margaret and sarah on the IGI family search sight.... both born st geoge hulme to paremts Edward walsh and margaret...

Hi...Re: sarah ann walsh..i found details for both margaret and sarah on the IGI family search sight.... both born st geoge hulme to paremts Edward walsh and margaret...

So are you saying that is not true what I found Flick? Maybe if they were babies they did'nt bother too much with the burial thing? but I have now found this

As far as deaths are concerned, the original Act of 1836 required a death certificate before a burial took place, but some clergy were willing to go ahead with a burial without one. Perhaps it was difficult for the widow to get to the registrar in the local town or maybe the minister took the view that the state shouldn't interfere in what they saw as church matters. Occasionally, you will find a burial in parish register taking place some days or even weeks before the 'official' date of death on the certificate


So I do not know then?

Only births were able to escape registration before 1875

Death certs were needed to allow burials to take place

I am struggling to find this family on a census nor can I see a birth for a Sarah Ann Walsh in 1854.

If you do not have the 1848 death cert how do you know it is your Margaret born 1847?

I am sure I read somewhere that not all deaths were registered before 1875 either...here it is

1837-1874

The country was divided into Registration Districts, each under the control of a Superintendent Registrar. Registrars were appointed to issue certificates for births and deaths which occurred in their area. Their duty was to actively collect information and they were paid according to their success. There was no penalty for not registering a birth or death, so records from this time are incomplete, possibly a third of the population is missing from these early records. When the local registers became full they were sent to the Superintendent Registrar for safe keeping. The Superintendent Registrar produced local indexes of events and four times a year sent copies to the Registrar General in London.

So your Edward and Margaret may not have travelled to Liverpool although only 35 miles away?