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Dawn,
You are quite right to cover all options. We also know about census and certificates there are porkie pies whether deliberate or not :-))
Personally I don't think she was married...
Best Wishes.

Regards Vera

Hi, Well it was just an option, with Samuel being born just after this marriage. also having seen cenuses that have things put on them and knowing the info isn't right, I thought she could of said to the enumumerator that she wasn't married which is either never or being widowed she is no longer married. or her brother saying her name and then answering no to the marital question.
I had a case of 2 youngest children beign put as the grandsons of the head when they were actually the sons! also a couple being put as married on the 1861 and they didn't marry until 4yrs later having their marriage cert.which was 4mths before my gggrandfather was born in 1864!
so really just another option to investigate.
regards
Dawn

Hi,

Are you certain that Martha Green married John Mountford and that they had Martha and Eliza ? Please can I ask where you got that inf., from as on the FreeBMD there are quite a few couples....


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Marriages Mar 1841 (>99%)
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Bennet Thomas Stoke On Trent 17 171
CARTLIDGE Thomas Stoke on T 17 171
Durose Jane Stoke upon Trent 17 171
GIBSON Hannah Stoke On Trent 17 171
GREEN Martha Stoke On Trent 17 171
Henshall Mary Stoke on Trent 17 171
Layland Josiah Stoke on Trent 17 171
MOUNTFORD John Stoke on Trent 17 171

How did you know John married Martha?

Regards Vera

Hi Dawn,

Glad to help. It does look like Martha never married Samuels father as the
1851 census gives her living with her brother and his family and it states that she is single and Samuel is her son. Will check this other Martha with daughter Martha. Hope all is well downunder :-))

Regards Vera

It's now a matter of finding out if Martha was actually married or not! I did see a marriage in 1841 of a martha green to a john mountford with a birth of a martha mountford the following yearand the birth of eliza in 1849, couldn't find a death of a john around the time which would of made her husband-less on the 1861! Many thanks once again from downunder :)

thanks again Vera for all your help :)

1871
Samuel Barber Head M 26 1845 Staffordshire VIEW
BARBER, Etey Wife F 26 1845 Staffordshire VIEW error when written on image
BARBER, Edward Son M 8 1863 Staffordshire VIEW
BARBER, Thomas Son M 2 1869 Staffordshire VIEW
Piece: 2878
Folio: 67
Page: 53
Registration District: Leek
Civil Parish: Norton
Municipal Borough:
Address: Stanley Street, Norton
County: Staffordshire
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1881

, Saml Head Married M 36 1845 Coal Miner
Kidsgrove, Staffordshire VIEW
BARBER, Eliza Wife Married F 36 1845
Cobridge, Staffordshire VIEW
BARBER, Thos Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar
Smallthorn, Staffordshire VIEW
BARBER, Geoe Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar
VIEW
BARBER, Pheobe Daughter Single F 2 1879
VIEW
MOUNTFORD, Edward Lodger Married M 37 1844 Coal Miner
Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW
FALKNER, Hannah Lodger Married F 28 1853
Wakefield, Staffordshire VIEW
MOUNTFORD, George Son Single M 18 1863 Coal Miner
Smallthorn, Staffordshire VIEW
FALKNER, Henry Son Single M 2 1879
Smallthorn, Staffordshire VIEW
FALKNER, Mary Elizth Daughter Single F 0 1881
Smallthorn, Staffordshire VIEW
Piece: 2736
Folio: 73
Page: 56
Registration District: Leek
Civil Parish: Norton in the Moors
Municipal Borough:
Address: Stanley St, Norton In The Moors
County: Staffordshire


Marriages Dec 1865 (>99%)
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Barber Samuel Wolstanton 6b 171

Mountford Eliza Wolstanton 6b 171



Regards VERA

So far no luck with Martha on the 1871....still looking

Found this death unfortunately without the cert., will not know if it is the right one.

Deaths Mar 1862 (>99%)
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MOUNTFORD Martha Wolstanton 6b 72

Regards Vera

Hi Vera, just had another look at the 1851 you did, and it's looks a possiblity! Martha although put UM could of been a widow as the Samuel and as you said the F 1850 could be eliza! also maybe Martha didn't marry! but just put herself as a Widow in 1861. Strange in 1851 she puts herself as apotter but nothing in 1861 and her son is put as a labourer! would be interesting to see her on the 1871! I have Samuel with his wife Isabella on the 1871. Alos I did read a message on a site, which I couldn't reply to that on Samuel's marriage to Isabella, it put's his father as Samuel potter, yet I haven't find a marriage of a Samuel and Martha!
More intrigue! still it keeps it interesting!!

wow! thanks for the new posts! they must of been put on while I was writing my reply! About the Mountford, I was wondering if it might have a T on the end? it has happened here in NZ The sister on the 1861 Eliza age 11!

Thomas remarried....

Household Record 1881 British Census


Name Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation
Thomas OLDACRE M Male 65 Snelson Potters Printer
Martha OLDACRE M Female 46 Hanley, Stafford, England
Joseph LOMAX U Male 24 Shelton, Stafford, England Potters Placer
Martha LOMAX U Female 17 Shelton, Stafford, England Potters Transferer
William LOMAX Male 14 Shelton, Stafford, England Potters Labourer
George LOMAX Male 13 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar
Laura LOMAX Female 11 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar
Minnie LOMAX Female 9 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar
Harry OLDACRE Male 5 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar
Frederick OLDACRE Male 4 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar
Alice JERVIS Female 18 Stoke, Stafford, England Potters W house Woman

Dwelling 35 Chatham St
Census Place Stoke Upon Trent, Stafford, England
Family History Library Film 1341653


England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Thomas Oldacre
Name: Thomas Oldacre
Spouse Name: Martha Lomax
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1874
Registration district: Stoke upon Trent
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 307

Wow! thanks! I have a problem with the Samuel mountford! there were two who went to NZ! Samuel married Isabella Oldaker and they went to NZ in 1875,he says he is a gardener, they had a daughter Lilly who had the name Waimate as well as she was born on the ship and she passed it on to her sonGordon! so I know that is the right one,as on the nz bmd there is a record for Lilly with Samuel and Isabella as parents. The other Samuel married an Emma and came to nz in 1874. he says he is a potter. However on Gordon's marriage his parents which are actually his grandparents samuel is put as a potter!!!!! That's why I would like to find Samuel with both parents on 1851 as his mother Martha is a widow in 1861
Much appreciate help given :)

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

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THOMAS OLDAKER Pedigree
Male Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: ELLEN BARNET Family
Marriage: 29 MAY 1836 Stoke Upon Trent, Stafford, England



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Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record

1841 possible

MOUNTFORD, Joseph M 55 1786 Staffordshire VIEW
MOUNTFORD, Joseph M 17 1824 Staffordshire VIEW
MOUNTFORD, Ralph M 14 1827 Staffordshire VIEW
<<<<<MOUNTFORD, Martha F 20 1821 Staffordshire VIEW
MOUNTFORD, Ruth F 11 1830 Staffordshire VIEW
BENNETT, Richard M 21 1820 Staffordshire VIEW
BENNETT, Phoebe F 20 1821 Staffordshire VIEW
Piece: 987
Book/Folio: 15/44
Page: 1
Registration District: Wolstanton & Burslem
Civil Parish: Burslem
Municipal Borough: Stoke upon Trent
Address: Cobridge, Burslem, Rushton Grange, Stoke Upon Trent
County: Staffordshire


Regards Vera

1841 England Census
about Ellen Oldacre
Name: Ellen Oldacre
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Stoke Upon Trent
Hundred: North Pirehill
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Stoke upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Hanley
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 990
Book: 9
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Oldacre 25 (Potter)
Ellen Oldacre 25
Ann Oldacre 3
Sarah Ann Oldacre 1

Thomas is a Potter Printer on the 1851.

1851 ???

Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation
Disability Where born Image
MOUNTFORD, George Head Widower M 40 1811 Potter
Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW
MOUNTFORD, Hannah Daughter Unmarried F 16 1835 Potter
Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW
MOUNTFORD, Samuel Son Unmarried M 14 1837 Potter
Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW
MOUNTFORD, Ephriam Son M 4 1847 Potter
Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW
>>>>>>>>MOUNTFORD, Martha Sister Unmarried F 31 1820 Potter
Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW
>>>>>>>>MOUNTFORD, Samuel M 8 1843 Sisters son
Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW
- F 1 1850
Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW ........ Although there is no name against this info on the image the dates match Eliza


Piece: 2003
Folio: 570
Page: 19
Registration District: Wolstanton
Civil Parish: Rushton Grange
Municipal Borough: Stoke upon Trent
Address: Cobridge, Rushton Grange, Stoke Upon Trent
County: Staffordshire

Martha was single.

Regards Vera

1851 England Census about Isabella Oldaker
Name: Isabella Oldaker
[Isabella Oldacre]
[Isabella Oldacre]
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Oldaker
Mother's name: Ellen Oldaker
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Stoke upon Trent
Ecclesiastical parish: Shelton
Town: Hanley and Shelton
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Stoke Upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Shelton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1i
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 125
Piece: 2005
Folio: 215
Page Number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Oldaker 36
Ellen Oldaker 36
Ann Oldaker 13
Sarah Ann Oldaker 10
Ellen Oldaker 9
Isabella Oldaker 6
Elija Oldaker 4
Elizabeth Oldaker 2
Thomas Oldaker 4 Mo
View
Original
Record

View original image

I am looking for a Samuel Mountford born c 1843/44 in Staffordshire I have him on the 1861 with his mother Martha a widow and sister. also Isabella Oldacre born c 1844/5 staffordshire. I have her on the 1861 with her family parents Thomas and Ellen.
Many thanks
Dawn