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Can anyone help me please to find the birth or marriage records for Charles. I believe he was born in St Brides, Fleet street area of London c 1792. I know from the marriage certificate of his daughter Amelia Emma to George Henry Chappell in 1853 that he was a fancy artist. Amelia was born c 1820 (I have her death certificate) and believe perhaps in Blackfriars area but no birth or baptism records can be found. I know she had 5 siblings (census forms) and 4 of them were baptised as adults in 1863 when Charles Frederick, artist is listed once again but no mention of him on earlier census forms apart from 1861 and 1871 when he was an inmate in the workhouse. He sometimes used his second name of Frederick. I have searched and searched the records for him but no luck. Can anyone throw any light on him please or advise where I could try next. Thank you for reading this.

Ancestry have this London Baptism (my sub does not allow me to view the details or the image):

Name: Charles Frederic Edward Pistor
Parents: Henry Pistor
Amelia Pistor
Baptism: date - city, Middlesex, England

There are also these two baptisms with the same parents:

Name: Matthias Henry Pistor
Parents: Henry Pistor
Amelia Pistor
Baptism: date - city, Middlesex, England

Name: Henry Joseph Benjamin
Parents: Henry Pistor
Amelia Pistor
Baptism: date - city, London, England

Amelia Emma's marriage as Sister !

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about George Henry Chappell Name: George Henry Chappell
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Spouse Name: Amelia Emma Sister
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 8 May 1853
Parish: Shoreditch St James
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: William Chappell
Spouse Father Name: Charles Sister
Register Type: Parish Register

Pistor on original.

Thank you I had found these but the original Charles Frederick Edward Pistor born 1788 died in 1792. I think perhaps my Charles born c 1792 may have been a sibling to Mathias and Henry Joseph born after death of his brother and taking the same name. I know that Henry snr (believed to be father) was bankrupt and had been imprisoned around this time ie 1792 which may have explained why he perhaps wasn't baptised. The Pistor family were business people and I think perhaps Charles Frederick may have been employed by brother? Henry who was an importer of fancy goods. These are just assumptions of course. I have tried searching the London Baptism records also.

I am just looking back a few pages for mysteries now that I have re-upped to this website :)

The surname certainly never gets spelled right.


1901 sisters of Amelia

Elizabeth Preston abt 1837 St Luke, Middlesex, England Head Bournemouth, Hampshire
Mary A Preston abt 1835 St Luke, Middlesex, England Sister Bournemouth, Hampshire
Caroline Preston abt 1843 London, England Sister Bournemouth, Hampshire

corrected to Pistor by an ancestry user

1891 same people

Sarah Bishop abt 1836 St. Luke, London, England Head Holdenhurst, Hampshire
Florence Charlotte Bishop Sarah abt 1882 St John; Hackney Daughter Holdenhurst, Hampshire
Elizabeth Pistor abt 1832 St. Luke, London, England Sister Holdenhurst, Hampshire
Caroline Pistor abt 1841 St. Luke, London, England Sister Holdenhurst, Hampshire

this is Elizabeth in 1851 with Amelia, again corrected by same ancestry user

Amedeo Portes abt 1831 Blackfriars Road, Surrey, England Head St Luke Old Street, Middlesex
Elizabeth Portes abt 1833 St Luke London, Middlesex, England Sister St Luke Old Street, Middlesex

Amelia's age there definitely says 20

In any event they should be in St Luke in 1841 it seems but hanged if I can find them, or the rest of them in 1851. Just thought they might be with a parent or parents if they could be found.


But wait, searching for Caroline in Luke in 1841 did it.

Name: Caroline Riston
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Luke
Hundred: Ossulstone (Finsbury Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: St Luke
Sub-registration district: Finsbury

Charles Luster 40
Ann Luster 35
Amele Riston 20
Ann Riston 15
Mary Riston 10
Betsey Riston 9
Sarah Riston 5
Caroline Riston 2

(so Amelia really was 10 years older than it says in 1851)

The parents are on the page before the children so their names got transcribed incorrectly but differently (exactly the same thing happened to a family of mine in 1901, two totally different wrong transcriptions for the parents and children and it took me years to find them).

I might have thought Charles's occupation said 'printer' but from what you ahve said it would be 'painter'. Now, painter almost always means house painter, otherwise it would say 'artist'. The neighbours are tradesmen ... butcher, chairmaker ...

Charles and Ann were not born in county.

Probably a user has corrected the entry at freebmd

Births Jun 1839
Piston Caroline St.Luke 2 287
Pistor Caroline St Luke 2 237

and that certificate would get you her mother's name!

I hope some of this is new and useful anyway :)

this looks like mother Ann's death

Deaths Mar 1869
Pistor Anne 68 Shoreditch 1c 104


here are mother and daughters in Shoreditch in 1861

Name: Ann Pistor
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Relation: Head
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England
Civil parish: Shoreditch St Leonard
Ecclesiastical parish: Hoxton St John the Baptist and Shoreditch St John the Baptist
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: Shoreditch

Ann Pistor 55
Elizabeth Pistor 28
Caroline Pistor 21
Ann Elisa Walker 13 granddaughter

and here they are in 1851

Name: Ann Reston
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1803
Relation: Head states widowed
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Princes Road
County/Island: Surrey
Registration district: Lambeth

Ann Reston 48 needlewoman (as one of the sisters is in later census)
Sarah Reston 16
Caroline Reston 12



and now I see you mentioned the census forms in your opening post so I'm sure you had all this after all, oh well! it was good exercise after being out of the game for so long :)

My main idea was to try to find who the wife/mother was which would help find records. Caroline's birth certificate will provide that name.

It would be a really good idea to correct all the census records at Ancestry so others who may be looking will be able to find them and contact you. You can do that with a 14-day free trial subscription even.

So I am just puddling ...

If Charles was a painter, of the decor rather than decorative kind ...

1851

Name: Thomas Pistor
Age: 50 unmarried
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Luke Old Street
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: St Luke
Sub-registration district: Finsbury

... was a paper hanger. Sounds possibly related!


This Henry is a merchant in 1841 (mother widowed); could his father Henry married to Elizabeth be a brother of your Charles?

name: Henry Edward Pistor
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 16 Feb 1817
baptism/christening place: ST NICHOLAS OLAVE, LONDON, LONDON, ENGLAND
father's name: Henry Pistor
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C02267-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 374515

Another potential brother would be this John married to Lydia:

name: John Henry Pistor
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 26 Aug 1826
baptism/christening place: ST MARY WHITECHAPEL, STEPNEY, LONDON, ENGLAND
father's name: John Pistor
mother's name: Lydia
indexing project (batch) number: C02557-6
system origin: England-ODM

who is a dealer in artificial flowers in 1851, but in 1841 seems to be a baker:

Name: John Pistey
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Civil parish: Lambeth
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey


Can you give the census details for Charles/Frederick in 61 and 71? I have had no luck finding him at all.

In the Workhouse in 1861.
1861 England Census
about Charles Pistor Name: Charles Pistor
Age: 69
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1792
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: St Bride Fleet St

Civil parish: St Sepulchre
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: West London
Sub-registration district: West London North
ED, institution, or vessel: West London Union Workhouse
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 217
Folio: 96
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
Timothy Noonan 71
Julia Noonan 73
Mary Nethercliffe 70
Maria Nicholls 83
Jane Newman 28
Margeret Newman 34
Lydia Neale 71
Elizabeth Ocallaghan 64
Ann Ogden 51
Mary Ann Owen 10 Months
Parry Partridge 21
Thomas Pearson 65
John Peer 72
Michael Pembroke 69
John Priddle 57
Charles Pistor 69 <<<<<<<<
John Pearce 56
Ann Powell 69
Frances Painter 76
Margaret Price 71
Sarah Poynter 53
Julia Posten 83
Eliza Phillips 72
Mary Puncheon 38
Harriett Pellatt 74
Lewis Roney 1 Days
Richard Revers 45
George Russell 65
Michael Ryan 57
James Reynolds 44
Joseph Redgrave 45
Edward Robinson 54
John Riley 64

This family looks connected.

.1851 England Census
about Elizabeth Pistor Name: Elizabeth Pistor
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Relation: Mother
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Coventry, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Kingston upon Hull Holy Trinity
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Humber
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 115
Piece: 2362
Folio: 248
Page Number: 35
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Edwd Pistor 34
Mary Ann Pistor 20
Mary Ann Elizabeth Pistor 1
Elizabeth Pistor 60 <<<<mother
Sarah Harris 17

1871 England Census
about Fredk Pestor Name: Fredk Pestor
Age: 80
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Relation: Pauper
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: City of London Union Workhouse
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 308
Folio: 88
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
Fredk Pestor 80 <<<<widowed artist
Willm Parmel 67
Anne Powell 73
Eliza Phillips 83
Esther Pearcey 32
Mary Punchson 45
M A Packer 81
Alexa Pinner 21

Posssible Bapt's for Charles.

London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
about Charles Frederic Edward Pistor Name: Charles Frederic Edward Pistor
Baptism Date: 4 Nov 1789
Parish: St Leonard, Shoreditch
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hackney
Parent(s): Henry Pistor,
Amelia Pistor
Record Type: Baptism
Register Type: Parish Register

I think we can rule this one out as he died three years later.

London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
about Charles Fredk Edward Pistor Name: Charles Fredk Edward Pistor
Burial Date: 27 Apr 1792
Parish: St Andrew Undershaft
County: London
Borough: City of London
Record Type: Burial
Register Type: Parish Register