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My son bought a house in Coulsdon, Surrey, which had been built next to an old Victorian grave yard, which had been allowed to get so overgrown that many people did not know it was there. Finally the local authority came and cleared it, however the first grave to be cleaned was the grave of a little girl called Betty Trotman our name's sake.

I am going to apply for a birth certificate for her as I found her details easily on GR. It would be easier if someone could possibly help me find her family who came from Godstone in Surrey, her mothers maiden name was I believe Cobb, which I got from the birth index. Reigate district. Betty was buried was in the grounds of a mental institution on Netherne Hill Coulsdon. A sad tale.

Many thanks Keith

Not sure if the 2nd one is a sister??

Births Jun 1922 (>99%)
Trotman Betty D M Cobb Godstone 2a 383

Births Mar 1932 (>99%)
Trotman Dorothy A Cobb Croydon 2a 448

Jan

By looking for a Cobb/Trotman marriage right time & area there is only this one:

Marriages Jun 1921
Cobb Dorothy W M Trotman Richmond S. 2a 1116
TROTMAN Charles I Cobb Richmond S. 2a 1116

Jan

I really hope this is your Charles!!

I am enjoying this but it seems I am having fun instead of you - all easy to find.

Births Dec 1901 (>99%)
Cobb Dorothy Winifred M Lambeth 1d 479

Births Mar 1894 (>99%)
Trotman Charles Ivanhoe Islington 1b 240

1911 England Census

Name: Charles Ivanhoe Trotman
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Islington, London, England
Civil parish: Warlingham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: Dorincount, West View Avenue Whyteleafe, Surrey
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Law Clerk
Registration district: Godstone
Registration District Number: 38
Sub-registration district: Godstone

Charles T P Trotman 43
Alice Trotman 41
Charles Ivanhoe Trotman 17
Alice Dorothy Trotman 11
Helena Holcombe 28

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Dorothy Winifred Mary Cobb
Name: Dorothy Winifred Mary Cobb
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Oct 1901
Father's Name: Francis James Cobb
Mother's Name: Doris Cobb
Parish or Poor Law Union: Brixton St Matthew
Borough: Lambeth
Register Type: Parish Registers

1911 England Census about Dorothy Cobb
Name: Dorothy Cobb
Age in 1911: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1902
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Brixton, London, England
Civil parish: Mortlake
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: Alma Villa, Shalstone Rd, Mortlake S W
Registration district: Richmond
Registration District Number: 41
Sub-registration district: Mortlake
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 307
Piece: 3606
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis James Cobb 31
Doris Cobb 33
Dorothy Cobb 9
Leslie Cobb 8
Thomas Cobb 79

Hi,
Your findings are most interesting, it is obvious that this little girl had something medically wrong with her, hence her dying in a mental institution, but I think you have found the family. The parents may well have moved out to Godstone in Surrey, which is an area that I know well, and Godstone is not to far from this mental hospital, to be near their child, but both parents it would seem were Londoners. Many thanks for your assistance.

Keith

It looks like they moved with their families, going by the 1911 census. The Trotman parents are Londoners too (Marylebone & Islington) .
Jan

Hi
Just had another look at your last two postings and I think that you have solved this problem for me. I can now order the birth certificate for further information, this is the second case of mental illness that I have come across in the Trotman family. My fathers brother was certified a total lunatic in 1935 and died in 1943. Im not suggesting that this Trotman family is directly connected to mine. Once again many thanks.

Keith

Hi Jan,
I would like to print all this info you have kindly sent me, can you tell me if there is a print tab on this page, I have looked but cannot se one.

Keith

Nor can I!
Maybe you can copy & paste what you want, to wordpad or similar, then print off.
If you want the census & baptism images I can send them, but you would need to PM me your email address.
Jan

An afterthought - do you want to wait for the birth cert? I would think it unlikely that her parents are anyone else though!

I am putting these in passing. The Charles below has record of a will but I am unable to see the probate entry on Ancestry as I only have basic membership.

Name: Dorothy Winifred M Trotman
Birth Date: 30 Sep 1901
Date of Registration: May 1992
Age at Death: 90
Registration district: Croydon
Inferred County: London, Surrey
Volume: 11
Page: 1322

?

Name: Charles I Trotman
Birth Date: abt 1894
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1959
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Holborn
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 1266

Jan

To add to what Jan said:

Name: Charles Ivanhoe Trotman
Probate Date: 14 May 1959
Death Date: 9 Feb 1959
Death Place: Surrey, England
Registry: London, England

Charles Ivanhoe Trotman of 21 Hillbury Rd Warlingham died 9tth Feb 1959 National Hospital Queens Square London WC1 . Probate to Dorothy Winifred Mary Trotman. Widow. Effects £3808 8s.

Following what Kuros has written. If I had not had a thyroid deficiency diagnosed and treated, I would have ended up considered gaga enough to have been locked up had it happened to me in Victorian times.

Although they were called mental asylums the inmates were not always 'mad'. Depression, STDs, poor living conditions and exhaustion were just some causes of 'madness'. I'm sure that some women must have been in for 'treatment' because of the loss of many children and babies. And also there were conditions that we understand today and deal with somewhat differently. Our lovely son has autism. He is fifteen. When he was about three, my family asked that he be 'just be sent somewhere'. For them it was the shame aspect of having a defective grandson. My heart goes out to those inmates who were locked up to get them out of the way because they were maybe 'slow' and for the family it was a social stigma. Parents were told even into modern times, that their child would be better off being cared for in an institution. And sadly some were locked up to punish eg a young girl who might have looked at the wrong boy. It all happened.

Now there is something very familiar about the surname Trotman so I'm off to Google.

I found one of my relatives at the age of 15 in an asylum, he was deaf from birth.

It may be that the parent or parents worked for the asylum and on her death were allowed to use the asylums graveyard.

Her death certificate may help you know.

My M-in-L was in an orphanage from a baby, and at a very young age was deemed by the Central Assn for the Care of the Mentally Defective to be "feeble minded" She was less than four years old!! At 14 years of age, she was considered to be "mentally deficient". I knew her as an intelligent and well educated woman, who worked as a book keeper for some major concerns. She was an accomplished pianist and sang beautifully. She brought up four healthy, well adjusted children. So that's how accurate they were in their diagnosis a hundred years ago. I believe that she was, understandably, rebellious. Bob

Many thanks for all your feedback most interesting, my father was a mental nurse at St Ebbotts in Epsom back in the 1960's it may have been his brother that inspired him to follow this profession as he was certified a lunatic and spent his short life in Sunderland asylum. I am of an age where as a child, at school another boy used to shout rather than talk and laugh a lot and he was eventually sent to an institution of some type.
Hopefully we have moved on now, my father died lifting a patient into the bath age 51.

My grandfather's brother was put in a lunatic asylum at an early age and died there in 1950.

In 1911 he is described as an imbecile.

His sisters were both deaf and dumb. I suspect that so was Alfred. A lifetime in an asylum, classed as an imbecile and all he was was deaf and dumb.#

Thankfully things have moved on :-)

sad sad times... my nephew was diagnosed with autism at 3 and he is now 18.. a fully functioning person and a wonderful human being... however his dads mum my nephews nan stated that all he needed to fix him was a smack.. sadly that generation wanted to shut away anyone not NORMAL..... :-(