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Mathias Carter found LAST UPDATE

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Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 10:22

Good morning all.

I have access to Ancestry but not the passenger lists.

I am trying to find a Mathias Carter dob 1880 Millom Cumberland.

The last sighting of Mathias was at the Preston court sessions 1904.
he was sentenced to 3 years.
There is no sight of him on the 1901 or 1911 census.
The 1891 census he is age 11 living in Barrow in Furness Lancashire.

His parents are
John Jewell Carter dob 1848 Breage Cornwall
Mary Ann James dob 1854 Breage Cornwall

The 1881 census they are under the surname Caster in Barrow in Furness.

The problem with Mathias is his assumed names.
Harry Lauder
Matthew Carter
Alex Westwood
Leonard Hay
Mathey Carter
Charles Stanley.

Bogus Occupations
Surgical Dresser
His service record 1897-1898 shows he was discharged for a Felony.

As you can see this rogue is proving very difficult to find.

I would greatly appreciate any assistance in this search.
Thank you

A previous Genes member Vera 2010 has now found
the probate record of Mathias on ancestry.

dod 18 January 1913
Uskat Servia ( Serbia)

Thank you all for your assiatance and best wishes

I have now recieved from the archives of the British Red Cross the funeral details of Mathias Carter.
Using an assumed Christian name of Charles after working as a student at the London hospital he joined the Red Cross and died in 1913 in Serbia of Enteric fever.
He was buried with full Military Honours.

Mathias is also on the 1911 census as Charles Carter aged 28 in Dartmoor prison.

Best wishes


ErikaH Report 8 Dec 2012 10:52

Ancestry only has incoming passenger records in relation to the UK


Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 11:07

Thank you Reggie,

I did not realise i could view the incoming passenger lists, i will take alook now.

The problem is if he did emigrate he may not have returned.

Thank you and best wishes


Gins Report 8 Dec 2012 11:15

I wonder if this is his marriage?

Marriages Dec 1902
Carter Matthias Ulverston 8e 1400

I cant see him on the outgoing shipping records


Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 11:25

Sorry Gins i should have added what may have been his marriage details.

1902 Dalton in Furness

Mary Jane Grenfell dob 1870 Dalton in Furness.

Mary appears to be on the 1911 census in Barrow in Furness still married.

Thak you for you reply

Best wishes


Gins Report 8 Dec 2012 11:37

Just to confirm that marriage is him

England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940
Name: Matthias Carter
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1878
Age: 24
Father's Name: John Sewell Carter
Spouse's Name: Mary Jane Grenfell
Spouse's Age: 32
Spouse's Father's Name: James Grenfell
Marriage Date: 31 Dec 1902
Marriage Place: Dalton In Furness, Lancashire, England


Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 11:42

Yes i believe that is his marriage Gins

Best wishes


Gins Report 8 Dec 2012 11:49


Is this your tree at Ancestry?

John Joel Carter
Kidd Family Tree
Birth: Abt 1849 - Cornwall, England
Marriage: 25 December 1872 (25 Dec 1872)
Death: 1890 - South Africa
Parents: Francis Carter, Catherine
Spouse: Mary Jane James


Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 12:00

Hi Gins,

No this is not my tree.

I am in touch with a descendant from the Kidd family but not from ancestry.

Mary Jane James is my great grandmother Maria James sister.

Ihave seen this tree but it does not help.


Gins Report 8 Dec 2012 12:05

So, if that tree is correct about his fathers death, maybe Matthias took off to SA?

I am right in saying that his mother was living with another man (Henry) in 1901?


Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 12:11

It is possible Gins but his family were very religious and it is doubtful he was welcomed with open arms.

I will have to check my tree as i have a death year for John Jewell Carter in South Africa. As for the 1901 census i will check that as well.
Please bear with me i will be back.



Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 12:23

Hi Gins,

In 1901 his mother was living in Dalton in Furness with a son John H Carter dob 1874 Helston Cornwall
Daughter Louisa dob 1888 Barrow in Furness

A newspaper report of John H Carters funeral mentions his father John Jewell Carter as having died in South Africa.but does not give a year of death.

I believe from a relative it may have been abt 1902.

Best wishes


MarieCeleste Report 8 Dec 2012 12:28

For background:

The tree on Ancestry that has him as John Joel Carter has year of death as 1890 in SA. Not sure if that's correct as the 1891 census has his wife Mary as married, not widowed.

Also, records show she was Mary JANE James.


Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 12:42

Yes that was me Marie thank you.
i have just rechecked and my notes say John Jewell Carters death was about 1892 not 1902 as i mentioned in a previous reply.

Best wishes


Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 13:23

Thank you Gins and Marie for your replys.

I have to go out for the rest of the day but will check my threads later.

Marie i have rechecked my tree and i do have Mathias mother as Mary Jane James not Mary Ann as i mentioned in my posting. Sorry.

Thank you all for your assistance but i fear Mathias may never be found, especially with all his assumed names.

He may well have died using another alias and nobody knew anthying about him.

Best wishes


MarieCeleste Report 8 Dec 2012 16:12

I notice in the newspaper report of 1904 that he got three years penal servitude. He must have been out by the time of the 1911 but it's quite possible that, as you suggest, he used yet another false name (a new one!) to hide.

Only other thing I can suggest is finding out his actual birth date (get his birth certificate) - just a chance that he may have used an assumed name but kept his birthday. Sometimes we've found people that way.


Maurice Report 8 Dec 2012 17:46

Hi Marie,

Thank you for that suggestion, i will get the cert and see if it helps.

Best wishes


Maurice Report 10 Dec 2012 10:18

I am unsure how to get the update on the first page, so have nudged it.
Hope this works.

Best wishes Maurice.


MarieCeleste Report 10 Dec 2012 19:36

I've found a later newspaper article about him.

The Manchester Courier dated 9 April 1907 reported on a Matthias Carter, surgical dresser Ulverston, who had pleaded guilty to stealing a watch, etc. He had pleaded guilty and got 12 months.


Maurice Report 11 Dec 2012 08:54

Thank you for your reply Marie, i will check that one out.

At the moment i have still to find out what the seemingly redeemed old rogue was doing in Serbia It has been suggested rather than rejoining the army which may have been difficult given his criminal record, he may have joined the ICRC or the British Red Cross.

I am awaiting replys from both organisations to my emails to them asking for any information.

I will of course let you know of any succes in that matter.

Thank you for your help it is most apppreciated.
Best wishes