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Thank you JoonieCloonie.

I wish they wouldn't say you need something when you don't. I was really panicking about that guarantor form. They even attached a template letter for the guarantor to sign!!

I will fax all off tomorrow and wait, very impatiently for the birth certificate :-D

Sandra, I already explained that the "guarantor" has nothing to do with your application for your dad's birth certificate :-)

A person applying for their own birth certificate needs a guarantor to prove to the government office that they are who they say they are. Just like having someone sign your passport photo.

This really, really does not apply to you.

You need to submit your dad's death certificate and your own birth certificate, showing that he is deceased and you are his child.

The contact info is at the bottom of the page there

https://www.ontario.ca/page/get-or-replace-ontario-birth-certificate#!/

Apply by mail or fax

Complete the application form and mail to:

ServiceOntario
189 Red River Road, PO Box 4600
Thunder Bay, ON
P7B 6L8

or fax it to:
>>>> 1-807-343-7459

I don't think sending everything to a friend of your son in Canada would speed anything up!

Just fax the copies of the two certificates, with your letter saying what they are for and quoting the file number (and I would write the file number written on the copy you fax for good measure). That's what it says on that page:

>>>> You can apply for a birth certificate for:
a deceased person; if you are *the next of kin*, executor or estate administrator. You will need to provide *a death certificate* or a funeral director’s statement of death, and any other documentation requested by ServiceOntario. You can only get a long form birth certificate for a deceased person. If applying online you will need to **submit the supplementary documents together with a letter quoting the online order number, by fax** or mail

(I assume you got a file number when your order was confirmed.)

Joonie Cloonie - I have just applied for my dad's birth certificate. i now have to send a letter from an Alternate Guarantor, along with a copy of my birth certificate and my father's death certificate. i still don't see a fax option or number but my son is going to scan these in work and send everything to his friend in Canada, which should speed up the process. Unfortunately he doesn't fit into the Canadian Guarantor criteria :-(

If you can submit by fax, it does sound like you can send copies.

Just order on line and send the docs along after, quoting the order number :-)

ArgylGran, thank you I missed that bit about the online order number.

:-D :-D

On the link I posted earlier it says,

" If applying online you will need to submit the supplementary documents together with a letter quoting the online order number, by fax or mail"

If they want originals, make sure you keep photocopies.

No she died as Mckee, so they never married!
I guess i will never know what happened John Kerr. I have googled his address but nothing pops up.

I think I will try to apply for my dad's birth certificate tomorrow. Can anyone tell me how I go about sending off a copy of his death certificate and my birth certificate to the records office. Do I just fill in the online birth application and then send them separately with a cover letter?

There is no marriage in Scotland,

Would Margaret and John have gone into US to marry.?

Has Margarets electoral address been checked where she lived in Ireland to see what name she went under,did she die as Kerr?

Yes, Frank born in 1938 and Heather born in 1946. I have been round the village and met lots of people who were school friends of my dad, uncle and aunt. All said the same thing - there was never a father in the house and my Uncle Frank was told by his mother that his father died in the war. Heather wasn't born until May 1946 and she used John Kerr's name as her father!!
Again is spoke with people who were close with Heather and there was never a man in the house!
Heather is living in Scotland but won't reply to my text messages. I have told her all that I found out but she never replies. I know she has the phone, as I gave her number to a girl she used to chum about with and she answered the phone. The friend asked heather if she had ever been back to Crumlin and she said No, there were too many bad memories!

Were the other children born in Crumlin, Sandra?

All Margaret's other children were born in Ireland. Her return destination was cited as Croshill, Crumlin on the ship records.

Eringobragh the thing is I don't think there is any evidence that Margaret returned to Canada after taking son John back to Ireland.

Ah I see ... you are suggesting that her 1931 return to Ireland may not have been voluntary. However, I would not think that was the case. As a British subject with almost 5 years of residence - only 1 year was required - she had Canadian domicle according to that article.

I would expect it was her circumstances ... unmarried and unskilled with an infant and no family as the Depression settled in ... that took her back to Ireland. Of course those circumstances could have brought her to the attention of the authorities, but unless she was wanting to go back to Ireland anyway I don't think she would have been subject to deportation.

What do you think of the possibility of Margaret going to England after that to look for work? Would that have been common in the 1930s for someone in her situation?

Her other children could have been conceived there with her returning to Ireland for their births ...

I don't think I quite got an answer to the question of whether Margaret's other children were born in Ireland ... and when ...

Sandra. Bear in mind that due to the Depression of the '30s thousands upon 1000s of people were deported from Canada it may be Margaret was one of those casualties...


http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/legacy/chap-4b.asp

Eringobragh - thank you for this, explains why she went. I will try to find information in their records :-D :-D

Sandra...May be of interest or help relating to Margaret and her Canadian "Life" details of all Domestics (Female) assisted by the Salvation Army to Canada were kept in their ledgers.. see the following link.. scroll down to part relating to the Domestics....although the whole file makes very interesting reading...The Salvation Army's Records are kept in their Archives....

http://hssh.journals.yorku.ca/index.php/hssh/article/viewFile/37037/33625

With nuns involved the baby could have been given an informal bapt and they took care of the burial as Margaret may not have been able to cope.?also there may not have been a Presbyterian Church near by.

No Canning on the same ship, also those males that went between 1924 and 1932 all seemed to be farmers.!

Annie or even a pet name? would be 11/12 in 1911,,,,,possibly with a relative?--ages on census will only be as true as those that gave it.

Margaret gave birth to the baby who died in St.Mary's Hospital, which was founded by nun's. Do you think it's possible that the nun's could have got a space for the baby, if as you say they couldn't afford one. If so would the baby have had to be Catholic to be buried there, or would they have buried anyone?

Yes, Agnes had 3 daughters Annie (illegitimately ) in 1899. She got married in 1902, had Margaret in 1906 and Catherine in 1911.

Annie Mckee appears on the 1901 census but not in the 1911 census. Strange that a 10 year old disappears! I looked for a death certificate but cannot find one :-(

Margaret's mother was a servant to the minister of their family church, Crumlin Presbyterian. The minister had 4 brothers, all ministers. One of them went to Canada to work. Would there have been a reverend Canning on the same ship ?






:-D :-D :-D :-D

Images for metagama ship
c&p into browser.

just to get an idea of what the ship was like,

I've confused myself again

from your OP:

'None of her other children knew a father, despite his name being on all their birth certificates and her name being down as Margaret Kerr!'

These children were all born in Ireland? So Margaret did not go back to Canada, and looking for her there after 1931 would be fruitless.

I mean, it would seem unlikely that she continued to have children in Canada
and transport them back to Ireland :-)

In any case you have those children's birth certificates in Ireland.

What years were they born?



Oh hm, here is Margaret's birth I think?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBGH-QJD

Name Margaret M'Kee
Event Type Birth
Event Date Apr - Jun 1906
Event Place Antrim, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Apr - Jun 1906
Registration District Antrim
Volume Number 1
Page Number 7

so much for my 1905 birth theory :-)

and the two other daughters:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB52-JMK

Name Catherine Mckee
Event Type Birth
Event Date Jul - Sep 1911
Event Place Antrim, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jul - Sep 1911
Registration District Antrim
Volume Number 1
Page Number 8

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBJP-QP6

Name Annie M'Kee
Event Type Birth
Event Date Apr - Jun 1899
Event Place Antrim, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Apr - Jun 1899
Registration District Antrim
Volume Number 1
Page Number 12