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could be they never married
found this death

Deaths Dec 1972   (>99%)

Valentine
 Mary Ann
 14No1889
 Barton

Thank you Mavis, Could not find a marriage for her and Joseph, she may have married before him, so need to check all Mary V...she would be round 22 in 1911...so she could have married at a push around 1906.....then married Joe Cooper, looks like first born was Louisa 1911 then Frank 1913...x

A possible for Mary Valentine

Mary Ann Valentine - Sep Q 1889 Dover 2a 963 -- you would need birth cert.
to find out if birth date matches.

1891 Dover

Charles Valentine 36y Lab. Dover
Mary A Valentine 35y Dover
Annie E Valentine 11y Dover
Charles Valentine 8y Dover
Harry Valentine 5y Dover
Mary A Valentine 1 y Dover

don't seem to be a baptism for Mary Ann Valentine 1889

1901 Dover

Charles Valentine 46y wd Dover
Harry Valentine 16y Dover
Mary Valentine 12y Dover
William Valentine 9y Dover

1911Dover
Charles Valentine 56y Dover
Stephen Valentine 16y Dover

unable to find Mary 1911 don't think she died she may have married ????

Mavis

It has Arrived the Birth Cert :Frank Cooper,
born 25/04/1913 ...6 Grove Street Southport.
Father : Joseph Cooper - Railway Fitter
Mother: Mary Cooper formerly Valentine

Birth in sub district of Formby...Registration District Ormskirk on the 12th June 1913. :-)

Had a look round but nothing, thought Valentine would be easier to find but nothing as yet on with parents. :-S

Re Mary Cooper -

this may be her death - the cert would give husband's name, if you wanted to find out who she was:


Mary Cooper
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name:Mary Cooper
Birth Date:8 Jul 1889
Date of Registration:Mar 1971
Age at Death:81
Registration district:Ormskirk
Inferred County:Lancashire
Volume:10f
Page: 518

This is him Chris, i went to Liverpool and checked Electoral Rolls for them after the war and the name was not him living there...strange...thank you for this.x

p.s. First time Anthony has been shown....Mmmmmmm :-S

p.p.s. With the Anthony opens up a ? we now have 2 deaths with same birthday 25/04/1913..one in Channock 1982 and one in Scarborough in 1995 ....x

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/40526/page/3838/data.pdf

(not the one on above is he?, comes up on google)

Chris :)

Cant wait............................ I can't seem to find anything further at the moment .

Dea x

I always thought the death cert was info given by the person who reported his death and if that was a 2nd/3rd partner who did not know him as a young person maybe it wasn't 100% correct ?...I have sent for the birth cert of Frank reg in Ormskirk last night , so folks will hang on with bated breath to see who the parents are should be here round 4th Jan '17 it say and will post on here the results then will get death cert...<3

If you know when and where he died and can identify the correct death certificate, that should hopefully say where he was born.

could this be frank
Births Jun 1913 

Cooper
 Frank
 Cooper
 Barnsley
 9c
610

Will do Dea...and thank you.x
<3

I think it is a good move to buy that birth cert and I do hope it is the correct one.

It is just possible that the Mary who they were living with was another family member other than their mother?

If, for example, their mother had died, they may have been living with an aunt etc. ???

Do come back on here with the details from the birth cert when it arrives and we can look further.

Dea x

Well at the time he was born the mmn is on the gro index so you should be able to find the right birth

Thank you safc for your help but unsure if this family link in as yet. I am looking at the moment at Mary Valentine's b.round 1889 who maybe was married before she married Joseph Cooper and that may help. Plus with the info from Dea i think i will send for birth cert for Frank with mother's maiden name as Valentine ....thank you folks i do try and find the info before i ask for help, but sometimes a fresh pair of eyes and experience see something i miss... <3

I did try to find this but couldn't and my question is how do i sort out the Frank Coopers i have and wondered if there was another way to get birth cert with only his d.o.b....plus i had the 1939 info ArgyllGran as i try to find the answers myself if i can and i gave all info i had on this thread.

Previous thread:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1337089

and there seems to have been another a few weeks before that, though I can't find it.

Marriages Sep 1920 (>99%)
Cooper Fred J Hesketh Ormskirk 8b 2116
Hesketh Mabel G Cooper Ormskirk 8b 2116
Holt Horace Purchon Ormskirk 8b 2116
Purchon Jane Holt Ormskirk 8b 2116

Mabel G Cooper on the 1939 Register

1939 Register Transcription

Cooper Household (3 People) 26 Irton Road , Southport C.B., Lancashire, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Mabel G Cooper 28 Apr 1878 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 239 2
Fred J Cooper 26 Apr 1865 Male General Merchant Married 239 1
Doris Cookson 08 Nov 1903 Female Domestic Service Single 239 3

No, I can't find a Cooper/Valentine marriage to fit either but it still looks to be a good possibility for the births.

Perhaps they never actually married, or perhaps she had been married before?

Dea x