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THOMAS FIELD

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 3 Dec 2017 16:14

Hi John

The thing is, we don't actually know if and when George Langley died.

(When i say "IF".....he obviously died at some point!! lol)

Apart from the marriage to Mary in 1866, we don't actually know anything about him.

Hopefully, the marriage cert will give a few clues about him that will help us to find out what happened to him

Hopefully it will reveal his age, residence and occupation at the time of the marriage, and also the name and occupation of his father.
The witnesses might be a clue too.

It is all rather odd!

We have..........

LANGLEY, SARAH ANN FLORENCE MMN WOODLAND
GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 400

Know as Florence and living with her Grandfather on the 1871 census.

FIELD, THOMAS MMN WOODLAND
GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 34

Referred to as.....Otherwise Thomas Langley

And......

LANGLEY, FRANCES EMMA MMN WOODLAND
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 331

Referred to as........Otherwise Frances Amy Langley

It might be a possibily that Mary and George had seperated and yet Frances's birth was still registered with the surname Langley in 1873......also leaving Mary unable to marry Thomas Field.

Pure speculation of course (Hey, what do i know!) but i do think we need to try and find out more about George Langley.

Obviously Mary was in Portsea Island (Portsmouth) at some point......and then Kensington.

She is not with her family on the 1851 and 1861 census........i have searched for her but can't seem to find her anywhere.


JOHN

JOHN Report 3 Dec 2017 14:40

Dear Prickly Holly

Need your advise, and hope you agree with me.

I appreciate the excellent research and detailed information supplied.

However it appears I could obtain various birth, death and marriage certificates, but probably not answer my original posting on 18 November 2017 at 9 11am, being to confirm the marriage of Thomas Field and Mary Ann Francis Woodland.

I note from posting on 19 November at 11 45am, Thomas Field acknowledge Mary had more than 'marriage', Furthermore including Thomas & Frances Amy Field/Langley in his Estate, but not Florence Field/Langley.

With the birth of Frances Langley in 1873, three years after a George Langley died, would suggest there was more than one George Langley, unless they used a 'Sperm Bank' :-)

If money was no problem, would love to get several birth, death and marriage certificates, just for peace of mind and try and solve the Field/Langley/woodland puzzle.

As I said, I hope you agree, at this time its not worth the extra expense in obtaining copy certificates.

Thanking you in anticipation.

With kind regards.

JOHN.

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 26 Nov 2017 12:55

Hi John

No, i am not in any way connected to any of the Woodland/Langley/Field families.

A problem i have with that 1870 death for a George Langley........is that there was another child born in 1873 with the surname Langley.

LANGLEY, FRANCES EMMA MMN WOODLAND
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 331

It is my opinion that this Frances is the Frances/Amy Field who appears on the 1881 and 1891 census and who Thomas mentions in his will....

(Born 1875 on the 1881 census.....1874 on the 1891 census.....born 1876 on the 1901 census and born 1879 on the 1911 census......Born abt 1875 on her death record.)

To Edward Critchell...Boot Maker....Thomas Field otherwise Langley....dealer and Frances Amy Field otherwise Langley...spinster

(Something "fishy" going on somewhere! ;-) )

Dea

Dea Report 26 Nov 2017 12:16

2 'bits' I found - don't know if they might help??


This article shows that in 1874 Thomas was in Partnership with Stephen Woodland who I believe was Mary's brother. - Son of George and Ann.
Taken from : Chichester Express and West Sussex Journal 29 September 1874

Can be viewed here:
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/60928194


This is Stephen in 1871:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Bottle Lane, Oving, Westhampnett, Sussex, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Stephen Woodland Head - Male 22 1849 - Sussex, England - Pig Dealer
Transcription
Annie Woodland Wife - Female 21 1850 - Sussex, England
Transcription
Stephen J Woodland Son - Male 3 1868 - Sussex, England
Transcription
Francis Anne Woodland Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Sussex, England
Transcription
Katherine R Woodland Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Sussex, England


Also -

This article from Marylebone Mercury 16 July 1870 relates to the George Langley who died in 1870 (referenced above).

He was a servant, had a brother Richard, and I am not sure he is the same one we were looking for. Although, it may be worth following the family back to see?


JOHN

JOHN Report 26 Nov 2017 11:47

Dear Prickly Holly

Thank you for your quick response.

Not wanting to pry, does your own Tree, in any way relate to Thomas Field and family ?

Will contact you on receiving copy of the Langley/Woodland marriage certificate.

With kind regards.

JOHN.

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 26 Nov 2017 11:05

Thank you for getting back to us John.

Regarding the post that Chris posted.........

""" 25 September 1889 - Chichester Observer - Chichester, West Sussex,

CHICHESTER COUNTY BENCH
John Fallick x. Thomas Langley alias Field were out of Court.

(relating to Assault case being not heard, but settled out of Court)""""

I believe this is referring to the son.......

Do get back to us if you purchase another copy of the Langley/Woodland marriage cert.

I got quite hooked on this one!! :-)

Prickles ;o))

JOHN

JOHN Report 26 Nov 2017 10:43

Dear Pickly Holly & Chris Ho :-)

Sorry for the delay in responding, but just confused with Thomas Field !

However, may I first congratulate you on your extensive and detailed research.

Referring to my original posting on 18th November 2017 at 9 11am, in trying to find Thomas's marriage to Mary A F Woodland, the picture is very confusing. Are we saying George Langley and Thomas Field, are on of the same person, (see Chris Ho posting on 19th November 2017 at 17 27pm).

Referring to Pickly Holly posting on 19th November 2017 at 17 49pm, when completing a Family Bible for my first grandchild, did obtain copy marriage certificate relating to Langley/Woodland in 1866, however not being a hoarder this was not retained. Now, in view of my information supplied, may obtain another copy.

With regard to Thomas Field and family, can at this time say 'apples don't fall far from the tree'

Thank again to all for your help.

Kind regards.

JOHN.

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 19 Nov 2017 17:49

It would be interesting to know about the father George Langley.

If it were me......i would have to purchase a copy of the 1866 Langley/Woodman marriage cert.

:-D

Thomas Langley Oherwise Field in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Thomas Langley Sherwise Field
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 25 Jul 1891
Marriage Place: Chichester, Sussex, England
Spouse: Rosa Louisa Kimbell

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
82, St James, Chichester, Sussex, England

(Sister Frances living at No 79 Lion House)

Thomas Field Head Married Male 30 1871 Horse Dealer London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Rose Field Wife Married Female 30 1871 - Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
Gertrude Field Daughter - Female 8 1893 - Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
Doris Field Daughter - Female 7 1894 - Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
Robert Field Son - Male 6 1895 - Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
Richard Field Son - Male 4 1897 - Chichester, Sussex, England


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1 Whyke Road Chichester, Chichester, Sussex, England

Thomas Field Head Married Male Horse - Dealer 42 1869 Maiden Vale London
Transcription
Rosa L Field Wife Married Female - 42 1869 Chichester Sussex
Transcription
Gertrude Field Daughter Single Female - 18 1893 Chichester Sussex
Transcription
Doris Field Daughter Single Female - 17 1894 Chichester Sussex
Transcription
Thomas R Field Son Single Male Assisting In Business 16 1895 Chichester Sussex
Transcription
Richard Field Son - Male School 14 1897 Chichester Sussex
Transcription
Brenda Field Daughter - Female School 7 1904 Chichester Sussex
Transcription
Fanny Kimbell Visitor Mother In Law Widow Female - 69 1842 Hampshire Peters Field
Transcription
Daisy Edwards - Single Female Servant 18 1893 Sussex Chichester


Births Mar 1868 (>99%)
KIMBELL Rosa Louisa Chichester 2b 365


Thomas Field on the 1939 Register

Field Household (3 People) 208 Whyke Road , Chichester M.B., Sussex, England

Thomas Field 19 Jan 1870 Male Hore Carter On Own Account Married 246 1
Rosa L Field 07 Jan 1868 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 246 2
Thomas R Field 21 Sep 1894 Male Riding Master On Own Account Single 246 3


Thomas Field in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Thomas Field
Death Age: 74
Birth Date: abt 1870
Registration Date: Mar 1944
Registration district: Chichester
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 722

Edit:.....A shame John didn't get back to us.

It was all very interesting.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 19 Nov 2017 17:27

(looks to relate also!)

Chris :)

25 September 1889 - Chichester Observer - Chichester, West Sussex,

CHICHESTER COUNTY BENCH
John Fallick x. Thomas Langley alias Field were out of Court.

(relating to Assault case being not heard, but settled out of Court)

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 19 Nov 2017 14:50

In case this is of interest to you.....

FIELD, THOMAS MMN AYLWARD
GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT UNION Volume 07 Page 536

Thomas Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Thomas Field
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 8 Jun 1845
Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England
Father: George Field
Mother: Mary


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Whyke Road, Rumboldswyke, Westhampnett, Sussex, England
William Crowther Head Married Male 42 1819 Agricultural Labourer Donington, Sussex, England
Transcription
Mary Crowther Wife Married Female 46 1815 Needlewoman Starston???, Sussex, England
Transcription
Friend Field Son In Law Unmarried Male 20 1841 Agricultural Labourer Sussex, England
Transcription
Sarah Field Daughter In Law Unmarried Female 18 1843 Servant Sussex, England
Transcription
Thomas Field Son In Law Unmarried Male 16 1845 Agricultural Labourer Sussex, England
Transcription
Ellen Crowther Daughter - Female 11 1850 Scholar Sussex, England


William Crowter in the 1851 England Census
Name: William Crowter
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Crowter
Gender: Male
Where born: Donnington, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Greatham
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Westhampnett
Sub-registration district: Manhood
William Crowter 32 Ag Lab Donnington, Sussex, England
Mary Crowter 35 North Mundham, Sussex, England
Emily Crowter 5
Ellen Crowter 1
Harriett Tield 12 Rumbolds Whyke, Sussex, England
Friend Tield 10 Rumbolds Whyke, Sussex, England
Sarah Tield 8 Rumbolds Whyke, Sussex, England
Thomas Tield 6 Rumbolds Whyke, Sussex, England

Mother Mary re- married in 1849

Marriages Sep 1849 (>99%)
Crowter William Wt Hampnett 7 729
Field Mary W Hampnett 7 729

William Crowter in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: William Crowter
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 23 Sep 1849
Marriage Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England
Spouse: Mary Field


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Wyke Street, Rumboldswyke, Westhampnett, Sussex, England

George Field Male (Dealer) 30 1811 Sussex, England
Transcription
Mary Field Female 25 1816 Sussex, England
Transcription
George Field Male 4 1837 Sussex, England
Transcription
Harriett Field Female 2 1839 Sussex, England
Transcription
Friend Field Male 0 1841


Deaths Sep 1844 (>99%)
FIELD George Westhampnett 7 325


George Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: George Field
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 26 Mar 1837
Baptism Place: Name: George Field
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 26 Mar 1837
Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England
Father: George Field
Mother: Mary
Father: George Field
Mother: Mary

Harriett Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Harriett Field
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 24 Feb 1839
Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England
Father: George Field
Mother: Mary

FIELD, HARRIETT MMN AYLWARD
GRO Reference: 1838 D Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT UNION Volume 07 Page 437 Order

(Married Alfred James Sims in 1858)


Friend Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Friend Field
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 21 Mar 1841
Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England
Father: George Field
Mother: Mary


FIELD, FRIEND MMN AYLWARD
GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT UNION Volume 07 Page 523

(Married Ellen Cousens in 1864)

Sarah Field in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Sarah Field
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 5 Mar 1843
Baptism Place: Rumboldswyke,Sussex,England
Father: George Field
Mother: Mary

FIELD, SARAH MMN AYLWARD
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT UNION Volume 07 Page 528

??
Deaths Dec 1867 (>99%)
Field Sarah 24 Westhampnett 2b 206

You might very well have all this information already John.......but i thought i would post it anyway.

Prickles ;o))


greyghost

greyghost Report 19 Nov 2017 13:59

Don't know if Elizabeth is still doing Romany look ups - a while since her thread was used

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1342925

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 19 Nov 2017 11:45

I don't know where you can find gypsy marriages John.


Thomas Field in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Thomas Field
Death Date: 30 Aug 1896
Death Place: Chichester, Sussex, England
Probate Date: 15 Jan 1897
Registry: Chichester

Of Lion-House. St James, Chichester....Horse Dealer

Chichester Observer 09 September 1896
All Persons having any claims upon the Estate of Thomas Fields, late of Lion House, St James, and the City of St John'a Mews, Southgate, in the City of Chichester, Dealer and Jobmaster, deceased, are requsted to send particulars thereof to me the undersigned forthwith
William Parker Cogan, Solicitors to the Executors.

To Edward Critchell...Boot Maker....Thomas Field otherwise Langley....dealer and Frances Amy Field otherwise Langley...spinster

Effects: £4878 15s 5d

Indicating then, that Thomas and Frances Amy were also the children of Mary's first husband George Langley.

Although as i posted earlier.....Thomas's surname was registered as Field..

FIELD, THOMAS MMN WOODLAND
GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 34

No birth registered for a Frances Amy Field or Langley

??

LANGLEY, FRANCES EMMA MMN WOODLAND
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 331

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 19 Nov 2017 07:52

If below relate to Lion House on above...

Chris :)

06 July 1921 - Chichester Observer - Chichester, West Sussex, England

MARRIAGES.
FIELD - CUMDY. At Fetherston, New Zealand, on June 28th. May, the second daughter the late Mr. Thomas Field, of Lion House, Chichester, to Gilbert, only surviving son of the late Mr. Joseph Cumdy of Fetherston, New Zealand.

(as Cundy on below notice)

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19210701.2.118?query=gilbert cundy


22 March 1911 - Chichester Observer - Chichester, West Sussex, England

CHICHESTER.
“... to each of whom for the executorship the testator left £5O. All other of his property he left to Frances Amy Field, Lion House, Chichester, for life, with remainder to the Chichester Infirmary.

(Will of Mr. Edward Crichell, would be below)


Deaths Mar 1911 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Critchell Edward 61 Chichester 2b 281

(1901, a visitor with Fields, 79, St James, Chichester, Sussex)


27 May 1944 - Bognor Regis Observer - Bognor Regis, West Sussex, England

WANTED, cook-general for Chichester district ; three in family, help given.— Apply, Mrs. Harold Field, Lion House, St. James, Chichester.


Edits (a snippet relating to a Mrs. George Woodland who died, mention of her husband belonging to the oldest family of Selsey, their name being mentioned in documents as far back as the year 1259, when one John Woodland was taxed X11d for a certain subsidy)


Deaths Jun 1916 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Woodland Emma N 73 Westhampnett 2b 477


(perhaps in family of below!)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/a6c65c5b-c229-42a9-8d17-7f3dbd52b4f5

(Smuggling Offences)

13 September, 1826

Information of William Wilson preferred against George Woodland of Selsey for concealing 3 gallons of brandy.

(no, probably a different Woodland family, in Selsey on Census, George occ. Fisherman)


Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription

First name(s) May
Last name Field
Title MISS
Gender Female
Age 38
Birth year 1881
Occupation NIL
Departure year 1919
Departure day 16
Departure month 11
Departure port Avonmouth
Destination port Wellington
Destination WELLINGTON
Country New Zealand


Birth
FIELD, MAY (WOODLAND)
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 398


Edits (now added 1901)

1901 (Find My Past)
Frances A Field Head Single Female 25 1876 Horse & Carriage Proprietor Chichester, Sussex, England
Harold Field Brother Single Male 22 1879 Horse & Carriage Proprietor Chichester, Sussex, England
May Field Sister Single Female 19 1882 - Chichester, Sussex, England
Lilian G Field Sister Single Female 17 1884 Milliner Chichester, Sussex, England
Rosalind Field Sister Single Female 15 1886 - Chichester, Sussex, England
Emily Fowles Servant Married Female 27 1874 Household Domestic Horsham, Sussex, England
Edward Critchell Visitor Single Male 49 1852 Boot Manufacturer Sussex, England
Street St James
Parish Chichester
County Sussex


Deaths Mar 1935 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Field Frances A 60 Westhampnett 2b 626

JOHN

JOHN Report 18 Nov 2017 14:08

Hi All

Its believed Thomas Field & Mary Ann Frances Woodland came from a gypsy background, are there any records of gypsy weddings, in order to find the marriage of Thomas & Mary Ann Frances ?

Thanking you in anticipation.

Kind regards.

JOHN.

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 18 Nov 2017 10:23

Death of Frances/Mary

Deaths Jun 1888 (>99%)
FIELD Mary Ann 38 Chichester 2b 248

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 18 Nov 2017 10:17

Mary Ann Frances Woodland in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Mary Ann Frances Woodland
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 12 Mar 1848
Baptism Place: Saint Paul,Chichester,Sussex,England
Father: George Woodland
Mother: Ann

(Not with her parents in any of the census records)

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 18 Nov 2017 10:07

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Lion House, St James Road, Chichester, Sussex, England

Thomas Field Head Widower Male 49 1842 Horse Dealer Sussex, England
Transcription
Florence Field Daughter Single Female 23 1868 - Hampshire, England
Transcription
Thomas Field Son Single Male 21 1870 Horse Dealer London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Frances A Field Daughter Single Female 17 1874 Scholar Sussex, England
Transcription
Harold Field Son Single Male 14 1877 Scholar Sussex, England
Transcription
May Field Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Sussex, England
Transcription
Julian G Field (Lilian Grace) Daughter - Male 8 1883 Scholar Sussex, England
Transcription
Rosalind Field Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Sussex, England
Transcription
Prudence Glue Servant Single Female 21 1870 General Servant Sussex, England

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 18 Nov 2017 10:04

Was Mary first married to a Mr Langley

??

Marriages Sep 1866 (>99%)
LANGLEY George Chichester 2b 577
Woodland Mary A Chichester 2b 577

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
27, Oving Road, Oving, Westhampnett, Sussex, England

Thomas Field Head Married Male 37 1844 Horse Dealer Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
Frances Field Wife Married Female 30 1851 - Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
Florance Field Daughter Single Female 13 1868 Scholar Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
Thomas Field Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
Amey Field Daughter Single Female 6 1875 Scholar Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
May Field Daughter Single Female 1 1880 Infant Chichester, Sussex, England
Transcription
Harold Field Son Single Male 4 1877 Scholar Chichester, Sussex, England

So where did daughter Florence pop up from??

This is my theory.....

Florence's birth registration....

LANGLEY, SARAH ANN FLORENCE MMN WOODLAND
GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 400

Known as "Florence" and with her Grandfather on the 1871 census......


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Muttons Farm, Sidlesham, Westhampnett, Sussex, England

George Woodland Head (Farmer of 11 Acres) Male 58 1813 - Sussex, England
Transcription
Emily Woodland Daughter - Female 10 1861 - Sussex, England
Transcription
Florence Langley ****** Granddaughter - Female 3 1868 - Hampshire, England

Death of father George

??

Deaths Sep 1870 (>99%)
Langley George 25 Kensington 1a 34

That is if he did in fact die.

Perhaps he didn't and that is why Mary wasn't free to marry Thomas Field??

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 18 Nov 2017 09:49

There does not appear to be a Thomas Field/Mary Woodland marriage

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Wickham Cross Road, Rumboldswhyke, Westhampnett, Sussex, England

Thomas Field Head Horse Dealer- Male 26 1845 - Sussex, England
Transcription
Frances Field Wife - Female 21 1850 - Sussex, England
Transcription
Thomas Field Son - Male 1 1870 - Sussex, England


FIELD, THOMAS MMN WOODLAND
GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 34

JOHN

JOHN Report 18 Nov 2017 09:11

Dear Friends & Helpers

Trying to trace marriage, between the above Thomas Field born 8th March 1845, and Mary Ann Frances Woodland born 4th January 1848.

All help and guidance would be appreciated.

Thanking you in anticipation.

With kind regards.

JOHN.