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CAN ANYONE HELP PLEASE ?

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Hollyhocks

Hollyhocks Report 20 Mar 2018 16:38

I am posting this for a friend as she does not have access to a computer....She has a partner who is trying to find out information on his family.....his name is Derrick Phillips and was born August 1961 in the Hackney area On his birth certificate it states ELSIE (nee Gilfrin) as the mother and the father as RONALD PHILLIPS. They have not managed to find a marriage certificate for them. Elsie, I believe was born in 1920 in Whitechapel and died in 1974 in Havering, my friend has confirmed this is where they were living at the time. The father died around 2009 but not sure where. Derrick has two older brothers but does not have contact with them.

Many thanks for any help. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 20 Mar 2018 16:59

I can only find the birth for one brother (James) in 1958 but I can't find a marriage for the parents either. Perhaps they never actually married or they could have married abroad?

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 20 Mar 2018 17:00

This looks like Elsie's birth:-

First name(s) ELSIE V
Last name GILFRIN
Birth year 1920
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name Turner
District Whitechapel
County London
Country England
Volume 1C
Page 468
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

I can't find a marriage between a Gilfrin and Turner either.

Kath. x

Hollyhocks

Hollyhocks Report 20 Mar 2018 17:05

Thank you for looking Kathleen x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 20 Mar 2018 17:05

This looks like Elsie's death (although her year of birth is out by three years) but this is not uncommon on death certificates as they are o nly as accurate as the informant's knowledge:-

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription
Print View image Start free family tree
First name(s) ELSIE VIOLET
Last name PHILLIPS
Gender Female
Birth day 16
Birth month 6
Birth year 1923
Age -
Death quarter 4
Death year 1974
District Havering
County Essex
Volume 13
Page 0187
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

Kath. x

Rambling

Rambling Report 20 Mar 2018 17:09

England & Wales marriages 1837-2005 Transcription

First name(s) ELSIE V
Last name GILFRIN
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1939
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ ELSIE V GILFRIN married
Henry G Gerrard
Spouse's last name Gerrard
District Bethnal Green
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1C
Volume as transcribed 1C
Page number 177
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Great Britain, England
© brightsolid online publishing ltd

Rambling

Rambling Report 20 Mar 2018 17:11

Looks like the same one Kath has posted

Deaths Dec 1974 (>99%)
GERRARD ELSIE VIOLET UNKNOWN HAVERING 13 187

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 20 Mar 2018 17:13

If Elsie was married to Henry Gerrard then that would be a good reason for her and Ronald Phillips not to have married. It wasn't always easy to get a divorce in those days.

Kath. x

Rambling

Rambling Report 20 Mar 2018 17:16

Ronald A reg as Gilfrin and Gerrard 1939

There are a number of Gerrard/Gilfrin births London area might still be living so best to look on freebmd

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 20 Mar 2018 17:17

Deaths from 2009 are not online so unless your friend knows exactly where he died it will be difficult to find. If he does know exactly where you could contact the relevant register office about the death of Ronald.

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 20 Mar 2018 17:22

Will send the Gerrard/Gilfrin births by pm.

Kath. x

Rambling

Rambling Report 20 Mar 2018 17:26

Elsie had a sister sadly died as a baby

Births Dec 1921 (>99%)
GILFRIN Margaret I Turner Whitechapel 1c 332


First name(s) MARGARET I
Last name GILFRIN
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1922
Age 0
Death quarter 2
Death year 1922
District Bethnal Green
County London
Volume 1C
Page 136
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England

Hollyhocks

Hollyhocks Report 20 Mar 2018 17:34

Thank you Nyx x

Rambling

Rambling Report 20 Mar 2018 17:41

I note that James R appears to be the first child in both Gerrard and Phillips surname.

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 20 Mar 2018 17:43

Elsie may be one of the closed records here?

1939 TRANSCRIPTION
Gerrard Household (3 People)
13 Tidey Street , Poplar, London, England

Harry Gerrard
DOB 11 Oct 1913
SEX Male
OCCUPATION General Labourer Heavy Worker
MARITAL STATUS Married
SCHEDULE 186
SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER 1

Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.

Ref: RG101/0443A/017/03 Letter Code: AQCF
© Findmypast Ltd
Open a closed record

Hollyhocks

Hollyhocks Report 20 Mar 2018 17:53

Nyx.....that is interesting that you found the name of Phillips and Gerrard surname
do you know what year that was ?

I found that birth for Henry Gerrard in 1913 and have just been on BMD and found a death for him in 1944 in Edmonton, this could possibly be the answer.x

Hollyhocks

Hollyhocks Report 20 Mar 2018 17:54

Hi again, have just re read emails James was born 1958 x

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 20 Mar 2018 21:08

The Henry Gerrard who died in 1944 is the wrong age?

Deaths Jun 1944 (>99%)
Gerrard Henry G 67 Edmonton 3a 707

If Elsie's husband died before her, there would be no reason for her not to be free to marry Ronald - unless, of course, he wasn't free to marry.

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 20 Mar 2018 22:20

If you use Freebmd and look at the Gerrard/Gilfrin births as already suggested you will see that one of those people has a tree on here. It may be worth contacting that person even if just to eliminate that the parents were the same?

As there doesn't appear to be another Gerrard / Gilfrin marriage it would seem a bit of a co-incidence that they are unconnected to the family that you are researching.

Ray

Ray Report 11 Aug 2019 11:05

Elsie Gerrard (gilfrin) was married to Henry Gerrard until about 1958
after the birth of James she left,taking James with her and using
the name of Philips went on to have 2 more boys with Mr Philips.
Henry Gerrard actually died late 1980s/1990s and not in 1944