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I am trying to find anything at all about my great grandfather John Samuel Hall.
He was married to my g.grandmother Ellen nee Walsh,born 1844, the widow of Thomas Bowden.
He is named as the father of her three children born 1879,1883, 1887. His occupation given as Cooper, Hoop maker, Hoop bender.
Ellen died in 1895, the children taken into Parish Street workhouse Bermondsey as 'Father deserted".
Even the smallest detail would help, I have been searching for him for years.

????


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
South Lambeth Road, Lambeth, London & Surrey, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
John N Hall Head Married Male 58 1833 London, Middlesex, England Foreman Cooper
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Ellen E Hall Wife Married Female 44 1847 London, Middlesex, England -
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John N Hall Son Single Male 22 1869 London, Middlesex, England Cooper
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Alfred T Hall Son - Male 13 1878 Lambeth, Surrey, England Scholar
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Ruth Hall Daughter - Female 9 1882 London, Middlesex, England Scholar
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Ellen M Hall Daughter - Female 7 1884 London, Middlesex, England Scholar
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Arthur H Hall Son - Male 6 1885 London, Middlesex, England Scholar
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James S Hall Son - Male 2 1889 London, Middlesex, England -

was john born in bermondsey

Did you know that she had more children?

I don't think th\t is the family in 1891 as it appears to belong to a John NORMAN Hall and Ellen Gore who married in 1867 in Newington.

Dea x

1891 England Census


Name: Ellen Hall

Age: 43

Relationship: Head

Birth Year: 1848

Birth Place: Bermondsey, London, England

Civil Parish: Rotherhithe

Residence Place: Rotherhithe, London, England

Sub registration district: Rotherhithe

ED, Institution or Vessel: 18

Piece: 383

Folio: 142

Ellen Hall 43
Emily Hall 9
Andrew Hall 6
Alice Hall 3

Yes - that is the correct family Choccy - I don't know why I couldn't seem to find them !!! :-S

Ellen says she is a widow on there - probably just to 'save face' ??

Dea x

I don't see any marriage record for John and Ellen.

Am I missing it somehow? Do you have their marriage cert?
If so, what info does it give - John's father's name?

Perhaps they never married.

HALL, ALICE WALSH Order
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D

HALL, ANDREW WILLIAM WALSH Order
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D

ALL, EMILY WALSH Order
GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 242

is this andrew
relation aunt, Mrs Lakeman 26 Beaatrice Road bERMONDSEY Andrew W Hall

in the London, England, Poor Law School District Registers, 1852-191

Name: Andrew W Hall
Gender: Male
Admission Age: 12
Record Type: Admission and Discharge Register
Birth Date: abt 1883
Admission Date: 25 Sep 1895
Admission Place: London, England
School: Brighton Road School
School District: South Metropolitan School District

Unfortunately Mrs Lakeman wasn't a Hall, which might have helped.

Marriages Dec 1868 (>99%)
Lakeman William Newington 1d 281
WALSH Catherine Newington 1d 281


William Lakeman
in the 1891 England Census
Name: William Lakeman
Gender: Male
Age: 44
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1847
Spouse: Catherine Lakeman
Birth Place: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Residence Place: Bermondsey, London, England
Sub registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, Institution or Vessel: 30
Neighbors:
Piece: 379
Folio: 91
Household Members:
Name Age
William Lakeman 44 - Portsmouth, pickler (spice)
Catherine Lakeman 44 - Bermondsey
John Dawson 6 - nephew

Address: 26 Beatrice Road

As the children were born in Southwark, maybe this is a possibility ??

John Hall
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John Hall
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Hall
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Newington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 12 York Buildings
Marital Status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Parafin Barrel Buyer (Dealer Cooper) <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: St Mary Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 17a
Neighbors:
Piece: 554
Folio: 115
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hall 30 - no birthplace given
Hall 28 - wife, no first name or birthplace
John Hall 6 - son, no birthplace
Eliza Evans 20 - no relationship stated, "no occupation", unmarried, Surrey

A couple of possibilities for the birth of that John - If he's your John Samuel:

Births Mar 1851 (>99%)
Hall John Samuel Poplar 2 394
Hall John Samuel St Lukes 2 310

As Ellens mmn was Walsh Catherine must be her sister

WALSH, CATHERINE CONDON Order
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in ST OLAVE'S UNION SOUTHWARK Volume 04 Page 513

WALSH, ELLEN CONDON Order
GRO Reference: 1844 M Quarter in ST OLAVE'S UNION, SOUTHWARK Volume 04 Page 478

Yes, I was assuming that - but should have actually typed it!

:-) :-)
the St Luke birth ended up in Nottingham in 1911 census
Name
John Samuel Hall
Birth
London St Luke United Kingdom abt 1851
Residence
Nottingham Nottinghamshire England 02 Apr 1911 married no wfie with him, an actors attendant

highly unlikely

Name: John Samuel Hall
Gender: Male
Initiation Age: 48
Birth Year: abt 1851
Initiation Date: 16 Mar 1899
First Payment Year on Register: 1899
Year Range: 1887-1909
Profession: Wine Merct.
Lodge: Manchester Lodge
Lodge Number: 179
Folio Number: 205

Could this be Ellen ?
1881 Workhouse in Rotherhithe.
Ellen Bowden born @ 1848 Horsley Down Surrey a widow occupation Charing.
No sign of Emily 1879 with her though.

Ellen Walsh dad Michael Walsh married Thomas Bowden 24/1/1870 dad John Bowden. They had son Thomas William Bowden 18/6/1870.

Maryb.

Births Sep 1870 (>99%)
Bowden Thomas William St Olave 1d 171

Deaths Mar 1874 (>99%)
BOWDEN Thomas William 3 St. Olave 1d 135

As Ellen does't appear to have married Hall, she was technically correct in calling herself a widow in 1891 - she was Bowden's widow