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Hi, I am trying to either prove or disprove the following theory:

1. Frances Turner was born in 1765 under the district of Southam, Warwickshire
2. John Spencer was born in 1760 in Southam, Warwickshire.
3. Frances married John Spencer on 25 November 1787 in Southam, Warwickshire
4. John and Frances has a child called George, born 1795 in Coventry who later married Anna Eaves in Coventry in 1815. .

5. John Spencer was born in 1760 to John Spencer born in 1734, Althorp and Alice???

The Mother is also the bit i'm confused on, official records don't have an Alice listed but, rather a Georgiana Poyntz.

Must have got something wrong along the lines, any information about this generation and where Alice fits in, what her maiden name was and who the kids and family are would be gratefully received.

Many thanks.

What is the source of the info you have posted above?

I see there are several other threads about his, so perhaps it's better not to continue on here...............

www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1372170

Well not really, the issue is that there are various branches going back generations. There will be people who recognise certain parts but may not have joined up other parts. By focusing on people who get married, this can sometimes help unearth other links, particular as old threads become dormant through a lack of responses indicating that those people that looked in those areas reached a dead end. It's also helpful that people can easily find areas of research relating to different people easily without having to trawl through very long threads.

You see, often on forums, if there has been a lot of replies, there is a presumption that the topic has been answered. People tend to look at the threads with the least replies and people (including me) rarely mark threads as answered as they are usually open ended.

It's not helpful to suggest that people do not answer the questions of somebody who has deliberately created a separate thread.

The links go back largely through Latter Day Saints familysearch.org -> Parish records. Frances Turner married John Spencer and became Frances Spencer so she didn't keep her name before marriage... Since I am interested in her relations before marriage, as well as her in laws of course, it's easier to start with the maiden name.

Many thanks.

No ........... it doesn't make sense to keep starting new threads.

There are other threads with searches done on these people. I've just ploughed my way through one.

All you do by starting yet another thread for the same or similar people is make the helpers duplicate work already done and/or search for and then plough through your recent threads to see what has already been found, before starting to look for new information.

Erika is quite correct .............. keep to one thread and we'll be able to help you without having to duplicate previous searches.

Remember, we're all members like you volunteering our time. I've seen searches come to a halt when the helpers get tired of doing and re-doing searches because separate threads have been posted.

John Spencer and Frances Turner appear to have had a son called George baptised at Southam in 1797:

England, Warwickshire, Parish Registers

Name George Spencer
Event Type Christening
Event Date 27 Oct 1797
Event Place Southam, Warwickshire, England
Gender Male
Father's Name John Spencer
Mother's Name Frances Spencer

Margaret Georgiana Poyntz was married to John Spencer, 1734-1783. On 3 April 1761, he was created Baron Spencer of Althorp and Viscount Spencer by George III, and on 1 November 1765, he was created Viscount Althorp and Earl Spencer.

THEY DID NOT HAVE A SON CALLED JOHN.

Their children were as follows:


Lady Georgiana Spencer (1757–1806), married William Cavendish, 5th Duke of Devonshire, and had issue.

*George John Spencer, 2nd Earl Spencer (1758–1834)

Lady Henrietta Frances Spencer (1761–1821), married Frederick Ponsonby, 3rd Earl of Bessborough, and had issue.

Lady Charlotte Spencer (1765–1766), died in infancy.

Lady Louisa Spencer (b. & d. 1769), died in infancy.

*George John Spencer married Lady Lavinia Bingham.

The following children born to John Spencer and wife Alice are baptised at Southam:

Name John Spencer
Event Type Christening
Event Date 03 Aug 1760
Event Place Southam, Warwickshire, England
Gender Male
Father's Name John Spencer
Mother's Name Alice Spencer

Name Elizabeth Spencer
Event Type Christening
Event Date 13 Feb 1763
Event Place Southam, Warwickshire, England
Gender Female
Father's Name John Spencer
Mother's Name Alice Spencer


Name Willm Spencer
Event Type Christening
Event Date 01 Feb 1767
Event Place Southam, Warwickshire, England
Gender Male
Father's Name John Spencer
Mother's Name Alice Spencer

Name Mary Spencer
Event Type Christening
Event Date 08 Jul 1770
Event Place Southam, Warwickshire, England
Gender Female
Father's Name Jo Spencer
Mother's Name Alice Spencer

As you can see from the dates of the children's baptisms, the John Spencer who was married to Alice, was fathering children with her at the same time as the titled John Spencer was having children with his wife, Margaret Georgiana Poyntz, so they are two different couples.

So the John Spencer who married Alice is NOT the John Spencer born 1734 at Althorp, who was the son of Hon. John Spencer and Georgiana Caroline Carteret (1716–1780), and a grandson of the 3rd Earl of Sunderland.

You need to continue looking for a baptism of the John Spencer who was married to Alice, and indeed, for the marriage to Alice.

There was a Frances Turner baptised at Southam in 1765. The location and date would make her a likely candidate for the Frances Turner, spinster of the parish, who married John Spencer of Radford in 1787 at Southam.

Name Frances Turner
Event Type Christening
Event Date 21 Dec 1765
Event Place Southam, Warwickshire, England
Gender Female
Father's Name John Turner
Mother's Name Sarah Turner

It may well be that as John Spencer was 'of Radford', he only moved to Southam following his marriage to Frances Turner.

Do I take it you didn't want the theory disproved? :-(

Kucinta .............


this seems somewhat par for the course ......... posting a thread, but then not returning and/or posting, whether because he's too busy to return or the information is not what he wants.