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1891 from Ancestry.

Name: James Scott
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Relationship: Son
Birth Year: 1865
Mother: Mary Scott........born County Mayo, Ireland
Child: Philip Scott
Birth Place: Haslingden, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Haslingden
Residence Place: Haslingden, Haslingden, Lancashire, England
Sub registration district: Haslingden
ED, Institution or Vessel: 5
Piece: 3353
Folio: 132
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Scott 50 Widow
James Scott 26 Single
Philip Scott 6 Grandson

Haven't investigated this properly yet - but maybe relevant to Dea's investigation?

Marriages Sep 1881 (>99%)
CUNLIFFE Margaret Ann Haslingden 8e 261
Greenhalgh James Haslingden 8e 261
Scott Edward Haslingden 8e 261 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Scott Sarah Ann Haslingden 8e 261 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


So far, I don't see either groom with either bride in 1891.


Edward in 1881:


Edward Scott
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Edward Scott
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relationship to Head: Son
Mother: Musin Scott
Gender: Male
Where born: Haslingden
Civil Parish: Haslingden
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 9 Bk Pleasant St
Occupation: Cotton Spinner
Registration district: Haslingden
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors:
Piece: 4139
Folio: 9
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Musin Scott 50
Patrick Scott 27
Edward Scott 23
Hugh Scott 19
James Scott 17
Cathrine Scott 15
John Scott 13


Note:
Brother James born 1864, as per the 1901 posted by Dea ??

And they're in Back Pleasant Street, although 9, not 12 as in 1901.

Nice to see that someone is still alive after Christmas - I have been feeling lonely !


I have been trying to follow this Philip Scott but have been having difficulty:

SCOTT, PHILIP SCOTT
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in HASLINGDEN Volume 08E Page 142


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
12, Far Back Pleasant Street, Haslingden, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Scott Head Single Male 37 1864 Cotton Spinnes Haslingden, Lancashire, England
Philip Scott Nephew Single Male 17 1884 Cotton Spinnes Haslingden, Lancashire, England



Record Transcription: ...................... the name is SCOTT !!!!
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
(?21 Bk.)Pleasant Street, Haslingden, Lancashire, England

Mary Leah Head Widow Female 50 1841 - Co. Mayo, Ireland
James Leah Son Single Male 24 1867 Spinner Lancashire, England
Phillip Leah Grandson Single Male 6 1885 - Lancashire, England



GRO shows:
SCOTT, PHILIP SCOTT Order
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in HASLINGDEN Volume 08E Page 142
mmname given as Scott on here but if illigitimate it is usually left blank. This implies to me that it was a 'Mr. Scott' married to a 'Miss Scott' ?

Probably no connection but I would like to be sure.....

Dea x

Re Alice - you'll need the birth cert to find out if she's the right one (though it looks very probable).
You can get a PDF copy from GRO website for £6.

There's no sign of a matching Alice Spooner in 1911 census - so she must be Alice Scott.

She may have been born at the end of 1909, but not registered until 1910.

It may just be he deserted her as she said don't ask about him you will hear no good
as you stated on your other thread

Would have thought if she knew he had died she would have said that

Unfortunately, Mabel took the truth to her grave and it's unlikely that you'll ever get the answer. Sad, but realistic.

Merry Christmas

Mabel lived until 1951 and she told family members that Phillip went to India to purchase silks and cottons. It might have been a one off journey or it may have been a fiction.

I have checked the birth certificate and Squire's birth was recorded by Mabel Scott
He was born at Lyme Grove Urmston 5/08/1911 at the same address where his mother and sister lodged, as recorded on 1911 census.

I think my Grandfather was unreliable to say the least but strange I can find no reference to his death, reputed to be in 1911, which is why I had assumed he had gone to India. Dangerous to make assumptions.

Mabel knew the answer to these questions but she never said anything . Sad really!
Any observations you have would be most welcome.

P Scott who travelled to Bengal in October 1911 was Scottish, as were his wife and child (age less than one year). His occupation was 'Manager'

One should always look at the image, where possible

What concrete evidence is there that this man went to India?

Who registered your father's birth?

Thanks for your renewed interest
I have not been able to unravel this mystery in the last few years so any help in
re visiting the evidence to see if there is a way through all the subterfuge, is more than welcome

Visitor or Lodger
On my father,s birth certificate on 5/8/1911 This the address listed so I can presume it was a lengthy stay.

Mabel Scott or Spooner. I am sure you are right about this. Its respectability that counts
India
This is a red herring unless P. Scott has another family and he is evading his new responsibilities by sailing for India.
I have tried to check Bombay arrivals and India BMD with no luck

I must check out Alice Spooner b. Birkenhead 1910
Thanks again

He didn't die before the 1911 census - at least not in England/Wales.

Mabel's listed as a visitor, not a lodger, so if accurate, she may just have happened to be at that address on the night of 2nd April, and not necessarily living there.

They didn't marry. Mabel's just calling herself Scott for the sake of respectability.
She must have already been pregnant with your father.

I don't think the wife and female child travelling with P Scott (no ages given) to Bombay in 1911 are Mabel and Alice - can't prove it, but it doesn't feel right.
For a start, where's your father? (Hypothetical question.)

Thanks for your interest
When the 1911 census was published I fully expected Phillip to be at this address
but he was absent. I think has Philip has left her and baby Alice in a lodging house and cleared off to india? or died

Well here is Mabel on the 1911 census


Name: Mabel Scott
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Visitor
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Laindon, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Urmston
Search Photos: Search for 'Urmston' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 3 Lyme Grove Urmston
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Barton upon Irwell
Registration District Number: 463
Sub-registration district: Stretford
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Piece: 23630
Household Members:
Name Age
George Clark 29
Mary Eliza Clark 30
Korace Neville Clark 5
Mabel Scott 28
Alice Scott 1 born Liverpool
Says married 2 years but none found

Alice was reg as spooner

Just a note re the daughter Alice -

with the benefit of the GRO website now, I think we can confirm that this is her birth, as suggested by Chris on the other thread:

SPOONER, ALICE -
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 510

The birth previously suggested (and also doubted ) on the other thread in Toxteth Park in 1909 is definitely not the right one:

SCOTT, ALICE ANN mms WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 160

and therefore Mabel's daughter is not the one who married George Fearon.

Yes - I have just found that also................................ Did you follow that up Philip?

Thanks AG - I do not like to waste my time finding what has already been found before!!

Dea x

I thought this sounded familiar.

Here's Philip's previous thread on this family, with a lot of research already done - leading to the summary in the OP above:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1362535

The suggestion on that other thread is that Philip Scott was born c1883 in Co Tipperary (but doubt cast on that, and that's probably a different Philip Scott.)

????
Scott Household (5 People) 40 Shirley Crescent , Blackpool C.B., Lancashire, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Squire Scott 05 Aug 1911 ???
Audrey M Scott 04 Jun 1912 Unpaid Domestic Duties
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Pamela Dawn Pullen (Scott) 27 Jul 1939 Under School Age
Pamela Dawn Pullen (Scott) 27 Jul 1939 Under School Age

Dea x

do you know when he was born

His occupation should be recorded on the birth cert