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John Marson b1846

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Julie

Julie Report 11 Feb 2020 11:25

I am struggling to find what happened to John Marson after the 1881 census. He was born in Thurgarton, Nottinghamshire in late 1846. I have traced him on the 1871 census to Condor Derbys, he is a miner and married to Mary, with no children.
I also have him in the 1881 census in Smalley Derbys, still a miner, but now with a wife Hannah, daughter Sarah 8 and William Butler described as son in law aged 10.
I have found a marriage for John Marson to Mary Ann Hogg in 1865, which in turn fits in with a birth regn for Sarah with MMN Hogg Q4 1872 in Belper RD. I also found a death regn for Mary Ann Marson in Q4 1880, along with birth and death regn for a son Francis in the same Q all at Basford RD (which straddled the Notts/Derbys borders).
I have also traced a birth regn for William Butler with no MMN and found Hannah Butler born in the same location as the Hannah Marson on the 1881 census, Horsley Derbys.She is on the 1871 census with her widowed father a framework knitter.
I can find no marriage for John Marson and Hannah Butler.
The only potential traces I can find of either John or Hannah after 1881 is a marriage of a Hannah Butler in 1902 at Ironville, Derbys to Joseph Key, The marriage reg scan shows her as a spinster aged 52 whose father was William Key framework knitter. I have also located a 1911 census entry for Hannah and Joseph Key. Although this shows no children for Hannah, my understanding is that the question in 1911 related to children of the current marriage.
It appears likely that John and Hannah were never married, but what happened to him after 1881?

Maddie

Maddie Report 11 Feb 2020 11:55

maybe

JOHN
Last name MARSDEN
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1845
Age 57
Death quarter 2
Death year 1902
District Belper
County Derbyshire
Volume 7B
Page 350

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 11 Feb 2020 12:31

For our reference - easier to understand:

John Marton
in the 1851 England Census
Name: John Marton
[John Marson]
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Son
Father's name: George Marton
Mother's name: Hannah Marton
Gender: Male
Where born: Thurgarton, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Thurgarton
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Southwell
Sub-registration district: Southwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 19
Piece: 2134
Folio: 170
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
George Marton 26
Hannah Marton 22
John Marton 4
Jane Marton 2
Robert Marton under 1 Mo


John Marson
in the 1881 England Census
Name: John Marson
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Hannah Marson
Gender: Male
Where born: Thirrgarton, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Smalley
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address: Smalley Mill
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Belper
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Piece: 3410
Folio: 58
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
John Marson 34
Hannah Marson 31 - Horsley
William Butler 10 - son-in-law [ i.e. - stepson ]
Sarah Marson 8


BUTLER, WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in BELPER Volume 07B Page 448


MARSON, SARAH HANNAH mms HOGG
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 106


Hannah Hey
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Hannah Hey
[Hannah Key]
Age in 1911: 61
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Horsley, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Codnor Park
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address: Golden Valley Alfreton Derby
Marital status: Married
Registration district: Basford
Registration District Number: 429
Sub-registration district: Greasley
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Piece: 20387
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Hey 76
Hannah Hey 61

Julie

Julie Report 11 Feb 2020 12:32

Hi Maddie,

That might fit with Hannah's marriage, which was November 1902, assuming John & Hannah were together until he died. That said, they were, they should be together on both the 1891 & 1901 census.

Maddie

Maddie Report 11 Feb 2020 12:49

hannah
1871
Holbrook Moor, Holbrook, Belper, Derbyshire, England

William Butler Head - Male 66 1805 - Derbyshire, England
Hannah Butler Daughter - Female 21 1850 - Derbyshire, England
Thomas Butler Son - Male 20 1851 - Derbyshire, England
William Butler Grandson - Male 0 1871 - Derbyshire, England

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 11 Feb 2020 12:52

1891, with typical Ancestry mistranscription:

John Marrow
in the 1891 England Census
Name: John Marrow
Gender: Male
Age: 45
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1846
Spouse: Hannah Marrow
Child: Sarah Marrow
Susannah Marrow
Birth Place: Thurgater, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Ilkeston
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Residence Place: Ilkeston, Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England
Registration district: Basford
Sub registration district: Ilkeston
ED, Institution or Vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Piece: 2666
Folio: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
John Marrow 45 - coal miner
Hannah Marrow 41 - Horsley
Sarah Marrow 18 - Stoneyford [ as in 1881 census ]
Susannah Marrow 7 - Ilkeston


MARSON, SUSANNAH mms BUTLER
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 163

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 11 Feb 2020 12:56

???

Hannah Butter
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Hannah Butter
Age: 49
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Horsley, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Stanley
Ecclesiastical parish: Stanley St Andrew
Town: Stanley
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Shardlow
Sub-registration district: Spondon
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors:
Piece: 3212
Folio: 163
Page Number: 11
Household schedule number: 59
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Green 49
Hannah Butter 49 - widow

Maddie

Maddie Report 11 Feb 2020 13:05

mary m could be mary a

Name: Mary Ann Hogg
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 2 Jan 1865
Marriage Place: Selston,Nottingham,England
Spouse: John Masson
FHL Film Number: 95049

Mary Ann Marson
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Registration Year: 1880
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 39
Registration district: Basford
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 115

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 11 Feb 2020 13:12

Probably Susannah's baptism:

Susanna Marson
in the Derbyshire, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1916
Name: Susanna Marson
Baptism Date: 22 Jun 1885
Baptism Place: Ilkeston, Holy Trinity, Derbyshire, England
Father: John Marson, miner
Mother: Anna Marson

Address: Rope Walk


Susannah's a servant in Ilkeston in 1901.

Julie

Julie Report 11 Feb 2020 13:14

Many Thanks ArgyllGran, I seem to struggle to find badly transcribed items, can I ask how you tracked these 2 down?

It appears that the couple treated themselves as married, even if they were not. If the 1902 marriage is Hannah, she may have decided to been honest about her martial status, whereas it's likely John will have completed/given the census info, and may have been the one who registered the birth.

Maddie, yes this is the marriage entry, the NFHS transcripts have Marson for John rather than Masson. I think the census entry Mary M is in error.

Julie

Julie Report 11 Feb 2020 16:42

I believe I have found John Marson on the 1901 census, but oddly he is described as a widower. His recorded age is a bit out, but the birthplace is Thurgarton so I'm pretty sure it's him. He is shown as a boarder along with 3 other widower men and the son of one of them. He is still in Ilkeston.I don't think the possible death for him in 1902 found by Maddie is him, I've found a burial at Riddings that fits with this. I think it relates to another John Marson actually born at Riddings and found on other census data.
It's looking like John and Hannah may have parted company between the 1891 and 1901 census and are describing themselves as widowed, which is correct for John, but may not be so for Hannah.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 11 Feb 2020 17:21

Yes, I saw that 1901, which may well be your John:

For helpers' reference:

John Marson
in the 1901 England Census
Name: John Marson
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Thurgarton, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Ilkeston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Basford
Sub-registration district: Ilkeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Neighbors:
Piece: 3152
Folio: 99
Page Number: 46
Household schedule number: 260
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Ann Norman 77 [she's actually in a different household ]
John Marson 48 - widower, coal miner underground
Emma Meek 49
George Thomas Meek 17
John Moss 45

If the 1901 for Hannah Butler is the right one, perhaps they had separated, but called themselves widowed for respectability's sake.


You asked how I found the 1891 census -
on Ancestry, I searched 1891 for a Hannah, no surname, born 1850 (not exact) in Horsley, then scrolled down the results looking for the name Marson (or anything that could be a mistranscription).

Same with Hannah in 1901, but scrolling down looking for either Butler or Marson (or possible mistranscription).

Julie

Julie Report 11 Feb 2020 18:48

Thanks ArgyllGran, will bear that approach in mind for future reference.
I still don't know where or when John died, but some more poking around may resolve that. It has occurred to me that as a miner he could have moved to another mining area outside Derbyshire, so perhaps I need to cast the net further afield.