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1861 Census Help Rudd or Molyneaux

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Carter

Carter Report 14 Feb 2020 07:36

Hello
Would someone please be able to explain to me why on the transcription of the 1861 census on Temperance Rudd it says sons wife (ambiguous )

I have Temperance Highton / Hayton married to Henry Rudd although for some reason he is known as Henry Molyneaux.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Sorry if I dont reply straight away as I have a hospital appointment at lunch time

Thank you


Name: Temperance Rudd
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: 1838
Relation: Son Wife (Ambiguous)
Gender: Female
Where born: Ince, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Ince in Makerfield
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Pemberton
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 177
Piece: 2781
Folio: 119
Page Number: 41
Household Members:
Name Age
James Rudd 64
Elizabeth Rudd 64
Henry Rudd 24
Temperance Rudd 23
Elizabeth Rudd 5
James Rudd 1
Richard Kindley 23
Source Citation

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 14 Feb 2020 08:36

Not sure what it is that seems wrong.

It looks to me as if James and Elizabth are married. Henry is their son and Temperance is his wife and the young Elizabeth and James are Henry and Termperance's children.

When was Henry calling himself Molyneaux?

Kath. x

Carter

Carter Report 14 Feb 2020 08:44

Kathleen
thank you for getting back to me. I cant understand why it says ambiguous. Its a mystery .

This is the 1871 census

Name: Temperance Molyneux
[Temperance Rudd]
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: 1839
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Pemberton Lancashire England
Civil Parish: Ince in Makerfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Ince in Makerfield
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Hindley
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Household schedule number: 131
Piece: 3892
Folio: 26
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Molyneux 36
Temperance Molyneux 32
Elizabeth Molyneux 15
Ann Molyneux 8
Alice Molyneux 5
Ellen Molyneux 1
James Rudd 75
Source Citation
The National Archives; Kew, London, England; 1871 England Census; Class: RG10; Piece: 3892; Folio: 26; Page: 28; GSU roll: 842040

Carter

Carter Report 14 Feb 2020 08:47

I cant find a marriage to Henry Rudd but can to a Henry Molyneaux

Name: Temperance Huyton
Registration Year: 1855
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Wigan
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 66
Records on Page:
Name
Jonathan Bell
Temperance Huyton
Henry Molyneux
Ann Prescott

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 14 Feb 2020 09:31

I think the ambiguous just means that the transcriber wasn't sure whose wife Temperance was. On Findmypast it doesn't say ambiguous.

People changed their name for all sorts of reasons.

Had his mother been married before and he was actually her first husband's son but used the Rudd surname because that was the only father he knew and then for some reason decided to use his "real" name. Have you found his birth? Which surname is it registered in?

Kath. x

Carter

Carter Report 14 Feb 2020 09:35

Baptism
2 Jan 1832 • All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire.
Henry Rudd - 1 Son of James Rudd & Elizabeth
Born: 9 Mar 1831
Abode: Ince
Occupation: Weaver Baptised by: J. K. Glazebrook

greyghost

greyghost Report 14 Feb 2020 13:23

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1855
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MOLYNEUX Henry HUYTON Temperence 1855 All Saints, Wigan Wigan & Leigh C33/14/166


and from http://www.lan-opc.org.uk A Rudd witness

Marriage: 10 Dec 1855 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Henry Molyneux - (X), 24, Miner, Bachelor, Ince
Temperence Huyton - (X), 20, Spinster, Ince
Groom's Father: James Molyneux, Labourer <<<<<<<<
Bride's Father: Henry Huyton, Collier
Witness: Thomas Rudd, (X); Ann Cassen, (X)
Married by Banns by: Henry J.Gunning Rector
Register: Marriages 1855 - 1856, Page 83, Entry 166
Source: LDS Film 1885697




greyghost

greyghost Report 14 Feb 2020 13:34

? Same family - Henry has aged !

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Pethcoal Lane, Ince, Wigan, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Rudd Head Married Male 52 1799 Coal Miner Ince, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Rudd Wife Married Female 52 1799 - Pemberton, Lancashire, England
Henry Rudd Son Unmarried Male 20 1831 Coalminer Ince, Lancashire, England
Alice Ashcroft Sister In Law Unmarried Female 50 1801 Washer Woman Pemberton, Lancashire, England
Joseph Lee Lodger Unmarried Male 18 1833 Cool Miner Ince, Lancashire, England
Margaret Taylor Lodger Unmarried Female 72 1779 Weaver Haigh, Lancashire, England

-----------------
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Petticoat Lane, Wigan, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
James Rudd Male 40 1801 Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Rudd Female 40 1801 Lancashire, England
Ellen Rudd Female 15 1826 Lancashire, England
Henery Rudd Male 10 1831 Lancashire, England




greyghost

greyghost Report 14 Feb 2020 13:36

Bearing in mind the name of the unmarried sister in law showing on the 1851 census, could this be the marriage of James "Rudd" and Elizabeth

Marriage: 24 Sep 1821 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
James Molineux - (X), Wigan Parish
Elizabeth Ascroft - (X), Wigan Parish
Witness: Samuel Hickox; Saml. Vizard
Married by Banns by: H. Evans, Curate of Hindley
Register: Marriages 1820 - 1824, Page 152, Entry 462
Source: LDS film 1885691

greyghost

greyghost Report 14 Feb 2020 13:44

????
Baptism: 2 Jan 1832 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Henry Rudd - 1 Son of James Rudd & Elizabeth
Born: 9 Mar 1831
Abode: Ince
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: J. K. Glazebrook
Register: Baptisms 1830 - 1833, Page 135, Entry 1074
Source: LDS Film 1885678

Possible as Ellen is 15 on the 1841 so could have been born up to 4 years earlier than 1826

Baptism: 14 Dec 1823 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Ellen Rudd - 2 Daur. of James Rudd & Elizabeth
Born: 28 Nov
Abode: Ince
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: G. Goodwill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1825, Page 167, Entry 1333
Source: LDS Film 1885677


greyghost

greyghost Report 14 Feb 2020 13:52

If correct baptisms, the name change came between James and Elizabeth marrying in 1821 and the birth of Ellen and Henry, but Henry must have known he was born a Molyneux.

Here there is a Rudd witness

??
Marriage: 9 Aug 1846 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Peter Potter - (X), 23, Engineer, Bachelor, Ince
Ellen Molyneux - (X), 22, Ince
Groom's Father: Elijah Potter, Collier
Bride's Father: James Molyneux, Labourer
Witness: Richard Rudd, (X); Ann Bushel, (X)
Married by Banns by: John T.Pigot Curate
Register: Marriages 1845 - 46, Page 226, Entry 451
Source: LDS Film 1885695

Got to leave it there for now ...

Dea

Dea Report 15 Feb 2020 10:31

Looks like these relate:

Baptism: 29 Mar 1800 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
James Molineux - (Base) Son of Ann Molineux
Born: 2 Mar
Abode: Ince
Register: Baptisms 1799 - 1812, Page 25
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

His mother's later marriage to James Rudd?:


Marriage: 5 Jan 1801 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Rudd - (X), Ince
Ann Molineux - (X), Ince
Witness: Wm. Bancks; Robt. Rudd, (X)
Married by Banns by: T. Meyrick
Register: Marriages 1790 - 1803, Page 267, Entry 1147
Source: LDS Film 1885689

Dea x


Dea

Dea Report 15 Feb 2020 18:34

I have found lots of relatives going backwards - let me know if you want them ............... Dea Xxx

greyghost

greyghost Report 17 Feb 2020 17:00

Hope that hospital appointment didn't lead to a stay !