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One of my brick walls. Alexander John Shaw, a cabinet maker, born about 1825 in Scotland is living in Sunderland in 1861 with his housekeeper Isabella Dobson their two children James & Richard, confirmed by their baptism records, and Isabella’s two daughters, Isabella & Mary, from a previous marriage. Alexander is down as a widower and died in 1871. I can’t find a record of a marriage between Isabella & Alexander but she is calling herself Shaw on the 1871 census. I can’t trace Alexander before 1861 despite following up several leads. Can anyone help please.

She has a son Matthew with her on the 1871


Matthew Shaw
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birth Date: 7 Jan 1864
Baptism Date: 21 Feb 1864
Baptism Place: St. Peter, Monk-Wearmouth, Durham, England
Father: Alexander Shaw
Mother: Isabel Shaw
FHL Film Number: 1514681
Reference ID: item 1 p 211


SHAW, MATTHEW TODD
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 512


So a possible marriage

Marriages Sep 1846
Dobson Edward Newcastle Tyne 25 316
Todd Isabella Dowel Newcastle Tyne 25 316

A tree on an ancestry has this


Death
21 Dec 1855 • Sailing vessel Lamorna.
Drowned at sea


So she was a widow

Was thinking she wasn’t free to marry Alexander but she was !

Maybe because she has son Matthew with her in 1871 she called her herself shaw too

as a face saver

There doesn’t seem to be a marriage

I'm wondering about this man:

Alexander J Shaw
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Alexander J Shaw
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1820
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ann Shaw
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Scotland
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Somers Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 115
Piece: 1496
Folio: 936
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander J Shaw 31 - pianoforte maker
Ann Shaw 32 - Alnwick
Edward J Shaw 10 Mo - Marylebone


"Edward" is officially called Alexander:

SHAW, ALEXANDER JOHN mms SCOTT
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01 Page 148


His parents' marriage:

Alexander John Shaw
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Alexander John Shaw [ pianoforte maker ]
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 14 Jun 1845
Marriage Place: Parish Chapel, St Pancras, Camden, England
Father: John Shaw [ "dead" ]
Spouse: Ann Scott [ father Isaac, dyer ]
Register Type: Parish Register


In 1861 the son is with his grandmother:

Alexander J Shaw
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Alexander J Shaw
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: 1851
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Alnwick
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Alnwick
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Alnwick
Sub-registration district: Alnwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 80
Piece: 3879
Folio: 79
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Scott 66
Alexander J Shaw 10




Death of Alexander senior?? (the one with Isabella, even if not the husband of Ann Scott)

Alexander Shaw
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Alexander Shaw
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Registration Year: 1871
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 47
Registration district: Sunderland
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 299


I don't see Ann in 1861 ..
She was actually born c 1817:

Ann Scott
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Ann Scott
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 29 Jun 1817
Baptism Place: Alnwick, Northumberland, England
Father: Isaac Scott
Mother: Elizabeth
FHL Film Number: 1469103
Reference ID: p 57

There is this possible death:

SHAW, ANN 36
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 131

Can't seem to find it on Ancestry.

Thanks to all for putting a few more facts on my tree. I wondered about the A J Shaw in St Pancras and his son "Edward". It's the best possible hint as yet. Alexander & Isabella also had a son called Alexander born 1861 died 1862. Would he have named two sons Alexander? I found an Alexander Shaw on the 1841 census in Hanover Square. He is a Bakers A? along with seven others from Scotland and two who were not. It seems a lot of apprentices if that what the A stands for and why so many from Scotland? Also I can't find a birth for him in Glasgow.
Thanks again for all your help it gives me a new lead to follow up.

Yes, "A" stands for apprentice.
Although, actually, that 1841 says he was a "Baker J" - baker journeyman - so past the apprentice stage.

He won't be the man who is a pianoforte maker in 1851.

There's no birth of an Alexander John Shaw showing on SP , but there are various Alexander Shaws in the general area around Glasgow - Renfrewshire/Lanarkshire.

This is the only one actually in Glasgow, and could well be the correct one, especially with father's name John:

SHAW
ALEXANDER
JOHN SHAW/JEAN CURRIE FR439 (FR439)
M
20/06/1819
644/2
20 103
Gorbals

another maybe
SHAW
ALEXANDER

JOHN SHAW/MARY LAING FR1485 (FR1485)

M
16/05/1825
483/
70 62
Kilsyth

Kilsyth is a town and civil parish in North Lanarkshire, roughly halfway between Glasgow and Stirling

Just for interest -

The head of the household in 1841, with all the bakers, was Thomas Reid, a master baker, from Scotland (Aberdeen, per 1861 census).

I expect that's why so many of his workers were from Scotland.

It was a big household, including some servants, and was in Regent Street.
It looks as if Thomas Reid was running a bakery business, and therefore had a lot of bakers working for him.


ADDED:
In the London Post Office Directory of 1829, Thomas Reid is listed as a Flour-factor and Biscuit-baker, at 227 Regent Street.
https://tinyurl.com/ydfcp672

-ArgyllGran

could this be the burial of ann
no forename given
in the workhouse

Last name Shaw
Age -
Birth year 1817
Death year 1853
Death date ? ? 1853
Burial year 1853
Burial date 18 Apr 1853
Burial place St George, Hanover Square
County Middlesex
Country England
Archive
City of Westminster Archives Centre
Record set Westminster Burials

Brilliant I should have realised that is couldn't have been a A when some of them where in their 30s. Very interesting about the baker though. I'll have a look at the two birth records and see if they lead anywhere. Thanks

Maddie -

yes, that looks as if it could be Ann's burial.
The death record is on GRO, FreeBMD and FS but apparently not on Ancestry.

????

Census Year County Place Civil Parish Piece Enumeration District Folio Page House Number House or Street Name
1841 Lanarkshire (LKS) Gorbals Gorbals 644 6 6 21 48 Dale Street, Back Land
Surname Forenames Sex Age Occupation Birth County Notes
SHAW John M 20 Cabinet Maker LKS xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MCLEAN Mary F 20 LKS

can't find him in 1851 in scotland

Looks good, safc!

Thanks safc another lead to follow. I have found an Alex Shaw born 1821 in the 1841 census at Bay Street, Port Glasgow and he is a carpenter but there's no parents. So frustrating.