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Yes no way to be sure but I can only assume they are one and the same but we will never know its strange when the Hamsterly ones wife dies he is living with his children and that's when the Swalwell 1 disappears

The Hamsterley man is documented throughout, as I've posted above - but the Swalwell man doesn't seem to exist at any other time.

It does seem suspicious!
Unfortunately, there's no way to know for sure if they're one and the same.

Sorry alston

It seems strange the only census records I can find for a Joseph Clark b 1859 in aksto is the 2 in 1891 in Swalwell and Hamsterley

I had the thought he was leading a, double life as it seems strange that he was the only other Joseph I could find with same details ie birth year and place my aunt remembers someone going to visit someone in Hamsterley where the 2nd Joseph lived in 1891

That Joseph's parents' marriage:

Joseph Clarke
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Joseph Clarke
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 21 Jul 1832
Marriage Place: Alston,Cumberland,England
Spouse:
Frances Philipson
FHL Film Number: 252533, 90549


His birth:

CLARKE, JOSEPH mmn PHILLIPSON
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in ALSTON AND GARRIGILL Volume 25 Page 6


And death:

Joseph Clark
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Joseph Clark
Death Age: 82
Birth Date: abt 1848
Registration Date: Apr 1930[May 1930] [Jun 1930]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Haltwhistle
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 424

His is the only Joseph Clark(e) birth ever registered in the Alston reg district.

However, Haltwhistle is about 37 miles away from Whickham - quite a long way at that time to be carrying on another life.

And as already said, registration wasn't compulsory at the time of your Joseph's birth.

??? Posting just in case the Joseph with Elizabeth was living a double life - or to rule out this man if he's the wrong one:


Joseph Clark
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Joseph Clark
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph Clark
Mother's Name: Frances Clark
Gender: Male
Where born: Alston, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish: Alston
Ecclesiastical parish: Alston
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Alston
Sub-registration District: Alston
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 97
Piece: 2424
Folio: 45
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Clark 49 -- Chatham, Kent
Frances Clark 39 - Chatham, Kent
John Clark 18
Jenie Clark 16
Thomas Clark 14
Sarah Clark 12
Frances Clark 9
Mary A Clark 6
Joseph Clark 3
William Clark 1


Joseph Clarke
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Joseph Clarke
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: 1848
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph Clarke
Mother's Name: Frances Clarke
Gender: Male
Where born: Alston, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish: Alston
Town: Alston
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Alston
Sub-registration District: Alston
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 39
Piece: 3897
Folio: 30
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Clarke 53
Frances Clarke 49
Frances Clarke 20
Mary Ann Clarke 16
Joseph Clarke 13
William Clarke 11
Robert Clarke 8


Joseph Clark
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Joseph Clark
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: 1849
Relation: Son-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: Alston Cumberland England
Civil parish: Hartleyburn
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Haltwhistle
Sub-registration district: Haltwhistle
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 21
Piece: 5155
Folio: 16
Page number: 5
Household Members Age Relationship
Robert Robson 60 Head
Mary Robson 60 Wife
James Robson 21 Son
Margret Clark 17 Daughter
Joseph Clark 22 Son-in-law
Nancy Robson 12 Daughter
George Robson 11 Grandson
Mary Jane Robson 4 Granddaughter
Elizabeth Ann Robson 3 Granddaughter






Joseph Clerk
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Joseph Clerk
[Joseph Clark]
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Margaret Clerk
Gender: Male
Where born: Alston, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish: Lambley
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street Address: Chapel House
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration District: Haltwhistle
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors:
Piece: 5110
Folio: 85
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Clerk 33
Margaret Clerk 27
John Clerk 8
Frances Clerk 6
Mary Clerk 4
Dorathy Clerk 2
Sarah Jane Clerk

Then 1891 in Hamsterley, as mentioned by Lynne.

1901 and 1911 - he's widowed, and in Haltwhistle with his children.

Thank you Shirley could be him in 1971 but don't think that's his death as he lives in gateshead district

Name: Joseph Clark
Death Age: 71
Birth Date: abt 1852
Registration Date: Oct 1923
[Nov 1923]
[Dec 1923]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: Carlisle
Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 592



But his name isn’t unique !

Wonder on this one

1871 census
Name: Joseph Clark
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: 1850
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Beaumont Cumberland England
Civil parish: Appleby St Michael and Bongate
Town: Bongate
County/Island: Westmorland
Country: England
Registration district: East Ward
Sub-registration district: Appleby
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 145
Piece: 5269
Folio: 65
Page number: 33
Household Members Age Relationship
William Harrison
53 Head
Sarah Harrison
54 Wife
Thomas Harrison
22 Son
Sarah Harrison
17 Daughter
Joseph Clark 21 Boarder
Joseph Gurner
21 Boarder

It has me puzzled I have sent for her some John's marriage certificate to see if it lists his father as no father on birth cert I am assuming Joseph Clark is his father with them changing their name to Clark. The only other Joseph Clark born 1850 in Alston I can find is also on another 1891 census living with his family in Hamsterley

Her and her son John change their name to Clark by 1911 and I have found another couple of births after John before 1901 who died with maiden name bulman

Yes she married Thomas Churchill but he dies

Thanks it is mistranscribed as I have John's birth certificate and it says bulman no father listed

Elizabeth's first marriage:

Marriages Jun 1883 (>99%)
Bulman Elizabeth Gateshead 10a 1126
CHURCHHILL Thomas Gateshead 10a 1126

Richard, Margaret, Jane and John's births (all Churchill) all have mmn Bulman (mistranscribed as Dulman on Richard's)

Elizabeth calls herself a widow in 1891 and 1901, but in 1911 says she's married, when calling herself Clark.
"Widow" was scored out in 1911, and "Married" written instead.

There were no births of boys named Joseph Clark registered in Alston Reg district 1849-52.


Joseph's not with the Churchills in 1901:

Elizabeth Churchill
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Churchill
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: No Shields, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Whickham
Ecclesiastical parish: Wickham
Town: Swalwell
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Registration District: Gateshead
Sub-registration District: Whickham
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Neighbors:
Piece: 4761
Folio: 120
Page Number: 12
Household Schedule Number: 67
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Churchill 39
Richard Churchill 17
Jane Churchill 10
John Churchill 8

Yes I have found Elizabeth in 1901 and 1911 Joseph isn't with them. I am working on the assumption Joseph is the father to some of her children as her husband died in 1891 and 1 of her children and herself change their name to Clark in 1911

Have you looked for a death for him?

have you found Elizabeth?

I could see Margaret in 1901, but not her mother or brother

Alston, Cumberland was a registration district in its own right. No births matching the census info, but, of course, there were no penalties until 1875

BTW, Elizabeth Churchill and her children were recorded as being Boarders in Joseph Clark's home in 1911

Hi I have found a Joseph Clark b 1851 in Alston Cumbria on the 1891 census in Swalwell co Durham living with an Elizabeth Churchill. Can any one help I can't find him on any census before or after 1891