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help looking for a marriage

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Carter Report 10 Sep 2021 16:57

Hello I wonder if anyone could help me.

I have a birth cert of a friend who was born in 1985 in Wigan Lancashire

It says the father was Malcolm Ellison and the mother was Karen J Billings.
It also states the mothers maiden name was Smith.and her place of birth was Farnworth Lancashire

Malcom and Karen didnt get married till 1987.

Both of them have now passed away

If the mothers maiden name was Smith but her name on the birth certificate was Billings then I assume she had been married before.

I can't find a marriage between a Karen J Smith and someone with the surname of Billings.

I know Malcolm Ellison was born in 1941 but no idea about Karen.

So if anyone could help me find a possible marriage between a Karen J Smith marrying Billings I would be very grateful or a birth of a Karen J Smith born in the Farnworth area of Lancashire.

I know my friend can send for their marriage certificate but just trying to help them beforehand

Thank You


Carter Report 10 Sep 2021 17:06

Event Type Marriage Registration
Name Malcolm Ellison
Event Date May 1987
Event Place Wigan, Lancashire, England
Registration District Wigan
Page 2098
Volume 39
Registration Year 1987
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Spouse Name (available after 1911) Billings
Possible Spouse Karen J Billings


nameslessone Report 10 Sep 2021 17:08

The birth certificate should state Billings formerly Smith. It could mean that Karen took the name without marriage.

When and where did Karen die? Her death certificate will give her age and possibly DOB. The death entry on the GRO listing may also give her DOB.


nameslessone Report 10 Sep 2021 17:12

According to Ancestry Karen J Smith was born in 1961. Mother’s maiden name Bidder.


Carter Report 10 Sep 2021 17:12


not sure when she died. she left the family when my friend was very young so they lost touch but they were told she had died.

birth certificate says
mother - Karen Billings
place of birth Farnworth Lancashire
maiden name Smith
surname at marriage if different from maiden surname - and it just has a line -
and then there are two addresses one for father and one for mother


ErikaH Report 10 Sep 2021 17:13


Carter Report 10 Sep 2021 17:15


thank you so much . I don't know why I couldnt find it.
Thank you so much


Carter Report 10 Sep 2021 17:16


Thank you once again. I had fooled myself into thinking that she would have been born around the same time as Malcolm. I don't know why I didnt see it.
Thank you


ErikaH Report 10 Sep 2021 17:18

GRO Reference: DOR Q2/2016 in WIGAN AND LEIGH (018-1A) Entry Number 513895128

England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Ince, Lancashire, England

Can't see a death for Karen J Ellison - must be after 2019, or under a different surname

There's a death in Kent for one born 1961, but no second forename


Carter Report 10 Sep 2021 17:24


Thank you


ErikaH Report 10 Sep 2021 17:29

Births Sep 1961 (>99%)
SMITH Karen J BIDDER Farnworth 10c 309

GRO Reference: DOR Q4/2015 in KENT (564-1Y) Entry Number 512915552

Maiden name should be on death cert


Carter Report 10 Sep 2021 17:34


Could I ask you a question.

If Karen's surname on her childs birth certificate is BILLINGS
would she have been married before or Could her mother have remarried and she had taken the surname of her stepfather ?

Thank you


ErikaH Report 10 Sep 2021 17:55

Anything is possible, I'm afraid

Try looking for Smith/Billings marriages on freebmd

IF the birth with MMN Bidder is the right one, the mother's forename was/is Kathleen

Have to be very careful, as she could be alive


Carter Report 10 Sep 2021 18:12

ErikaH I agree . Could you acknowledge this last message and then I will delete the thread. Dont want you to think I was being rude deleting it


ErikaH Report 10 Sep 2021 18:42


Bear in mind that everything is conjecture until the marriage cert is obtained. Trees on Ancestry are notoriously unreliable


malyon Report 10 Sep 2021 19:35

kathleen bidder married george smith in bolton 1959

also another birth brian 1960 farnworth