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Re James Hannan, supposedly born Newport - there's no record of such a birth.



You mention a James Hanna.

Is this the one - or is this another one - also an Irish soldier, officer in charge of Royal Artillery soldiers at Hatherwood Battery, Totland, IoW:

James Hanna
in the 1901 England Census
Name: James Hanna
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation to Head: N C O In Charge
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Belfast, Ireland
Civil Parish: Tolland [ TOTland on image ]
Ecclesiastical parish: Tolland Christchurch
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration District: Isle of Wight
Sub-registration District: Calbourne
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors:
Piece: 1032
Folio: 64
Page Number: 6
Household Schedule Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
James Hanna 24


But Hanna is quite a common name.
Hannan isn't so common, and is spelled that way on the two records you're investigating, so I feel Hanna is a red herring.

And there's also a James HANNA b. 1877, Antrim, living in Alum Bay in the Isle of Wight. Also a Solider, by the looks of things.
Who would have thought it was so popular a name...

Ahhhh... I might have a lead from the 1901 Census, though it conflicts with the possible Hannan family above (birthplace as IoW not Kent).
This makes a Hannan-IoW connection seem feasible, though it doesn't explain the Kent connection (still).
Will keep digging.

First name(s) James
Last name Hannan
Relationship Soldier
Marital status Single
Sex Male
Age 22
Birth year 1879
Birth town Newport, Isle of Wight
Birth town as transcribed NEWPORT
Birth place England
Birth county Hampshire
Birth county as transcribed ISLE OF WIGHT
Occupation Private hants regt
Institution name Colonel Moberly
Institution location Winchester
Full address Winchester St Thomas, Winchester, Hampshire, England
Street -
Parish Winchester St Thomas
County Hampshire
Country England
Registration district Winchester
Sub district Winchester
Parliamentary borough or division Winchester City
Municipal borough or ward St Thomas
Ecclesiastical parish or district St Thomas and St Clement
Other household member first name(s) -
Other household member last name -
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 1083
Folio 91
Page 11
Schedule 0
Record set 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Census
Collections from Great Britain, England

@ArgyllGran - I note also that in the 1901 census John & Emily are together with 3
kids (but not James) at the same address in Gillingham.

Oh wow, 14 replies in such a quick time.
Some really helpful thoughts here.

@Malyon - Yes, he used the name John Albert, but it was definitely Herbert John who married Ada Brading. I can only conclude he gave a false name.

@Malyon, yes they did have another child called Herbert John Jr. My Grandad was Herbert John Senior.

@Shirley - Re the Fever hospital in Dartford. That's a really interesting hypothesis! But why would he come there from the bucolic Isle of Wight? Also it looks like the hospital only opened in 1903 so wouldn't have been open at this point?

@ Shirley - re still acknowledging him on the 1911 census, that is an amazing point and I hadn't at all thought of that.

@Argyllgran/shirley - Yes, it says 'J Hannan present at the death'. I have to say though the 'Hannan' element of the name does make me believe that J Hannan or somebody in his family must have been involved in a family capacity, though. Clearly though he made a point of explaining he wasn't the dad...

@Argyllgran - amazing work on trying to identify this James Hannan. I'll try and follow that link up a bit more! THank you!

Thank you everybody - any more thoughts welcomed!

Looking for a possible J W Hannan -

Most seem to have been born/married/died in northern parts of England, but there's this one in Kent (if that's relevant) :

HANNAN, JAMES WILLIAM mmn SHERWOOD
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 520


In 1881 and 1891 he's with his parents John & Emily, and siblings, in Brompton, Kent.

I can't see him in 1901 - he's not with his parents.

1911:

James Hannon
in the 1911 England Census
Name: James Hannon
Age in 1911: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Gillingham
Civil Parish: Gillingham
Country: England
Street Address: 10 Theodore Place, Green Street, Gillingham, Kent
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Barman
Registration District Number: 47
Sub-registration District: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Piece: 3943
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hannon 72
Emily Hannon 68
Emily Hannon 39
James Hannon 31
Esther Hannon 26
Henry George Hannon 6


James W Hannon
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: James W Hannon
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 20 Mar 1878
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 10
Residence Place: Gillingham, Kent, England
Occupation: General Labourer
Line Number: 24
Schedule Number: 216
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: DHRX
Borough: Gillingham
Registration district: DHRX 47.2
Household Members Age
James W Hannon 61

Living with his sister Emily, who is incapacitated, but listed as a different household at the same address.


??
Deaths Mar 1952 (>99%)
HANNAN James 75 Chatham 5b 465


But (depending on where he was in 1901) there's no sign of any sort of connection to Ada or Herbert.

If the child's death cert only says "J W Hannan, present at the death" it would suggest that he wasn't a recognised relation.
If he was the father, for instance, I would expect it to say "J W Hannan, father, present at the death."

I'm inclined to agree with Shirley that WH may have been an official of some sort.

That doesn't explain why Hannan is part of the child's name, of course!

What is the address where the child died?

There is another thread about these people

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1325415

Yes malyon, you're right.
That child is shown on GRO with mmn BRADING and is on the 1911 census as a son of Herbert and Ada.

it was john albert beazley who married ada marion

Marriages Dec 1901 (>99%)
Beazley John Albert I. Wight 2b 1432 Scan available - click to view
Brading Ada Marian I. Wight 2b 1432

did they have another son could herbert j

Births Sep 1910 (>99%)
BEAZLEY Herbert J I. Wight

this is from BDM does not say what the H stands for

Births Mar 1902 (>99%)
Beazley Herbert Berkeley H I. Wight 2b 560

Googling the address only comes up with Waldeck road Dartford and it’s a mid terrace older style house

here is ada marian in 1891

Event Type Census
Event Place Note Highland Road
Name Ada Brading
Sex Female
Age 13
Event Date 1891
Event Place St Helens, Hampshire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) St Helens, Hampshire, England
Enumeration District 16
Registration District Isle Of Wight
Birth Year (Estimated) 1878
Birthplace Oakfield, England
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Page Number 10
Piece/Folio 892/ 68
Registration Number RG12
Ada Brading's Parents and Siblings
Hannah Brading
Mother
F
46
Ryde

Event Type Census
Event Place Note Highland Road
Name Hannah Brading
Sex Female
Age 46
Event Date 1891
Event Place St Helens, Hampshire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) St Helens, Hampshire, England
Enumeration District 16
Registration District Isle Of Wight
Birth Year (Estimated) 1845
Birthplace Ryde
Marital Status Widowed
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Page Number 10
Piece/Folio 892/ 68
Registration Number RG12
Frank Brading
Brother
M
20
England

Arthur Brading
Brother
M
18
Ryde

Ernest Brading
Brother
M
16
England

this is ada marian Event Type Census 1881
her mother's name is hannah

Name Ada M Brading
Sex Female
Age 3
Event Date 1881
Event Place St Helens, Hampshire, England
Registration District Isle Of Wight
Birth Year (Estimated) 1878
Birthplace Oakfield, England
Marital Status Single
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Page Number 39
Piece/Folio 1181/48
Registration Number RG11
Ada M Brading's Parents and Siblings
Hannah Brading
Mother
F
36
Weeks, Isle Of Wight, Hampshire, England

Event Type Census
Name Hannah Brading
Sex Female
Age 36
Event Date 1881
Event Place St Helens, Hampshire, England
Registration District Isle Of Wight
Birth Year (Estimated) 1845
Birthplace Weeks, Isle Of Wight, Hampshire, England
Marital Status Widow
Occupation Laundress
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Page Number 39
Piece/Folio 1181/48
Registration Number RG11
Arthur B Brading
Brother
M
8
Weeks, Isle Of Wight, Hampshire, England

Ernest Brading
Brother
M
6
Weeks, Isle Of Wight, Hampshire, England

1911 census they do state married 9 years 4 chidren born 3 still living so they are acknowledging baby Herbert

There was a fever hospital at Dartford

We lived in south east London and a brother of ours was in the hospital in the 1940,s because he had measles and chickenpox with convulsions

It was an isolation hospital with limited visiting times and mum had to wear protective gear and only see him through the glass of the ward

Wonder if the baby too was in hospital

Does the cert give actual death location


Edit it seems to be the Joyce green hospital but it didn’t open till 1903 initially as an isolation hospital for smallpox. So not the right place

BEAZLEY, HERBERT BERKELEY HANNAN BRADING
GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in ISLE OF WIGHT Volume 02B Page 560


So also born Isle of Wight

And the family consistently stay in the Isle of Wight

Could it just be he was an official at the place the baby died

Or maybe she was pregnant with another mans child when they married thatHerbert took on as his own

Can’t think he would be the one who was a patient in the lunatic asylum in 1901 who was 59 years old

Hello

My grandfather was Herbert John Beazley, born on the Isle of Wight 25.07.1881. He was married twice, first to Ada Marian Brading; second to Ellen Mary Weeks. Worked on the railways and I know a reasonable amount about him.

He had several children from his first marriage and one from his second. There's also a child that he adopted, possibly between his marriage, which was the original thread that brought me to GR.

He was married to Ada Marian on Boxing Day 1901. They married in the registry office. A little over nine months before, she was living as a servant in a local house ('Berkeley House') in the 1901 census. He was living with his family; dad was James Charles Beazley a musician. The marriage certificate suggests Herbert gave his name as 'John Albert', and it seems she gave a false address (of somebody with a musical profession in the census, so possibly linked to HJ's dad), and he gave his address as Berkely House. The wedding was witnessed by the great newphew of the house in which Ada was working, and Ada's brother. No Beazleys as witnesses.

On the 13th January 1902, three weeks after the marriage, their first child is born; Herbert Berkeley Hannan Beazley. On the birth certificate, the birth father is given as HJB as the father, and the address as the Beazley family home. The baby is born at Berkeley House, which I guess explains the first middle name. But Hannan?

On the 20th October 1902, at the age of nine months, Herbert Berkerley Hannan Beazley dies, in Dartford, Kent, of all places. This is not a place that I have linked at all with my family tree research so far or the family narrative passed to me. He is listed as 'Son of Herbert Beasley a fruit grower' (consistent with my grandfather's pre-railways occupation). Cause of death 'Teething, Diarrhoea, Convulsions'. The death is reported, two days later (22.10.1902) by J W Hannan, present at the death, and resident at 43 Walbeck Road, Dartford.

I am mystified with this J W Hannan - clearly that explains the second middle name, which must mean that he was a part of this child's life from the beginning - but absolutely mystified why he is looking after a 9 month old child.

My initial research into who J W Hannan is gives me a likely? record at the Heath, London County Lunatic Asylum, Bexley; b. 1842, London in the 1901 census, but I am struggling to identify him before or after this.

I feel like I've drawn a bit of a blank and not sure what inroads I've got left. I'd love to find out the story of this little boy. Any ideas where to look next?