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Here's the second Message

According to my second cousin in Shetland, her father said he was never seen in Shetland, apparently he has traveled to America in search of James.

A couple more messages from Neil, here is the first

yes Mary Ann Henry Irvine was James younger sister, my great aunt

I've asked him to add any replies to his Thread :-)

No help with the present query, but just for interest.


https://www.crewlist.org.uk/people/crew?target=irvine&SearchType=Exact&initial=james&dob=1894&submit=search

Seafarers whose surname is IRVINE, forename JAMES..., date of birth 1894 ±5 years
Surname Forename Age/DOB Birthplace Vessel ON Capacity From To Previous vessel Links


IRVINE JAMES 19 SHETLAND KINGSWEAR 124617 AB 1/1/1913 30/6/1913 FIRST SHIP, 1913

[ IRVINE JAMES ] 19 SHETLAND KINGSWEAR 124617 AB 1/1/1913 30/6/1913 SAME SHIP, 1913

IRVINE JAMES 20 SHETLAND KINGSWEAR 124617 AB 1/7/1913 31/12/1913 KINGSWEAR, 1913

[Dates aren't accurate - only 6-month periods are shown]

So James went to NZ between 1913 and 1916. I would guess before the start of WW1 .


Details about the ship:
http://www.tynebuiltships.co.uk/K-Ships/kingswear1909.html

Yes, I'd wondered about that, LondonBelle.

Neil -
who gave the information that he didn't arrive home after his letter?
If it was the now deceased relative in Canada, perhaps they weren't up-to-date with news from Shetland?

According to Neil's Tree George arrived in Canada in July 1923 so if George was receiving birthday cards from James then James was still alive in 1924. George was born 02 Jun 1902.

Perhaps James did make it home to Shetland to see his Mum in 1919/20 but then went back to sea!

A PM from Neil says that the info re birthday cards came from a relative in Canada who is no longer alive.

They were signed James, but there was no return address.

It's a pity we don't know when the birthday cards to George stopped, nor what country they were posted in - which would have been known from the stamps and postmarks.

Have you tried www.nzmaritimeindex.org.nz? Or the NZ National archives?

James may have become a merchant seaman after he went to NZ, in which case he won't show up in records of UK merchant seamen.

We don't know when he emigrated. His brother William emigrated at some time before 1910 when he married. Perhaps they went at the same time.


Ann was back in Shetland by 1911:

IRVINE
ANN
1911
F
49
005/1 7/ 5
Lerwick
Shetland

George, Catherine and Mary Ann are with her.

Gone South! As we are looking all around the world that needs clarifying.

As James was a 1st mate under sail then he would, presumably, be looking for something similar. If he was planning to sail back to the UK from the American west coast thenwouldn’t it take quite a longtime?

I have never researched merchant seaman but I am sure you can sometimes find their documents. Neil needs to look into doing that so he can work out where James went next.

Message received from Neil

Thank you The names if the family are correct apart from the transcribing of the last name. i had a feeling they had gone south for some reason temporarily. William was my grandfather . Still not sure where James was born.
Regards Neil

The "Lahaina" sailed for Port Townsend from Wellington, in ballast, at 8.45am on October 21st 1919.

https://tinyurl.com/mv3h2w24

She arrived at Port Townsend on 21 December:

https://tinyurl.com/28v3cvd5

I couldn’t ember where in Canad the main archives were kept.

This is a useful Scottish site which gives you that information as well as lots more.
Www.Glasgowfamilyhisyory.org.uk

Then explore our records - merchant seamen.

( couldn’t c & p as my iPad decided not to let me)

Neil - it is much better for all the researches trying to help you if you post the information on the thread rather than by pm. Unless it is very sensitive - which I don't think this is.


James left NZ on the Barquentine Lahaina Oct 1919. The letter sent to his mother was from San Francisco. SF was proably a stopping of point on the way to Port Townsend which is in Washington State.

Added: This is a llovely painting of the ship:
https://www.granger.com/results.asp?image=0103167&itemw=4&itemf=0048&itemstep=1&itemx=1

If you google the ship there is another picture of its stranding. It looks as though the name was given to a new steamer in the 1920's. It also looks as though it sailed regularly across the pacific.

Great source for Shetland families. Here is the family group.

https://www.bayanne.info/Shetland/getperson.php?personID=I80123&tree=ID1

Another WW1 record for James:

James Irvine
in the New Zealand, World War I Army Nominal Rolls, 1914-1918
Name: James Irvine [ sailor ]
Regimental Number: 14642
Relative Name: Mrs W Irvine [ Tronafirth, Tringwall - misspelling of Tingwall]
Relative Relationship: Mother
Embarkation: 1916

His brother William, sawmill hand, is also listed .

Neil's tree on Ancestry says that George was born 18 June 1902 at Gulberwick - and there is a Lerwick registered birth in 1902, so presumably correct.

According to Neil's tree, the army record for James, posted by Shirley at 11:29, is the correct one, with DOB 18/6 /1894 - although mother's initial is given as M, not A


EDIT:
Looking at the image, it actually says Mrs W Irvine, so that's correct, as her husband was William.

Might just be a coincidence but there is this birth on Scottishpeople,credits are required for further info.....last child on 1901 Census?

SurnameIRVINE
ForenameMARY ANN HENRY
Mother's Maiden Name
GenderF
Year1899
Ref005/1 46
RD NameLerwick

Can't see a 1919 voyage, but wonder if this could be James in 1913 (though it's a very common name) :


James Irvine
in the Washington, U.S., Arriving and Departing Passenger and Crew Lists, 1882-1965
Name: James Irvine
Nationality: English [ GB on image - not English specifically ]
Arrival Age: 20
Birth Date: 1893
Departure Place: Coquimbo, Chile
Arrival Date: Sep 1913
Arrival Place: Port Townsend, Washington
Ship Name: Stimson

He's only an AB, but maybe was promoted before 1919 ?!
Line Number: 11

1901 for the family.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
195, South Eldon Street, South Shields, Durham, England

Household members (7 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Anne Irvine Wife
Married Female 38 1863 - Scotland
William Irvine Son
Single Male 12 1889 - Scotland
Thomas Irvine Son
Single Male 10 1891 - Scotland
John Irvine Son
Single Male 10 1891 - Scotland
James Irvine Son
Single Male 6 1895 - Scotland
Catherine Irvine Daughter
- Female 4 1897 - Scotland
Mary A Irvine Daughter
- Female 1 1900 - Scotland

There is this 1901 Census but there is no George! The Family were all born Scotland. On the image the surname, I think, is 'Irvine'. The Image states Anne is married but no information about husband's occupation

Name: William Iovine
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Mother: Anne Iovine
Birth Place: Scotland
Civil Parish: South Shields
Search Photos: Search for 'South Shields' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration District: South Shields
Sub-registration District: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 70
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4736
Folio: 134
Page Number: 39
Household Schedule Number: 273
Household Members:
Name Age
Anne Iovine 38
William Iovine 12
Thomas Iovine 10
John Iovine 10
James Iovine 6
Catherine Iovine 14
Mary A Iovine 1