Find Ancestors

I am trying to work backward from the above James


James b 1847 Morpeth under name of Grieves (Mothers Maiden Name) in Morpeth District (Census says born Newbiggin by the Sea).

Mother Elizabeth Grieves marries (Father??) Robert Downie in Gateshead 1849.

Elizabeth dies 1854 Morpeth, aged 29 yrs. Robert remarries Isabella Johnson in Newcastle 1857.

In 1851 & 1861 the above James - now calles James Grieves Downie is living with grandparents - Francis & Margaret Rochester - in Newbiggin by the Sea, Northmberland.

Can anyone please help with grandparents of James ??

Ps - I have James accounted for up until his death in 1906.

Thanks !!

No way of identifying the father, as the birth was registered as illegitimate

INFO

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Village, Morpeth, Northumberland, England
Robert Downie Head Married Male 26 1825 Journeyn tailor Newbiggin, Northumberland, England
Elizabeth Downie Wife Married Female 26 1825 Journeyn tailor Stannington, Northumberland, England
Maria Downie Daughter - Female 1 1850 - Newbiggin, Northumberland, England

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Spittle House Cottage, Woodhorn, Morpeth, Northumberland, England

Francis Rochester Male 30 1811 -
Margaret Rochester Female 31 1810 Northumberland, England
Elizabeth Grieves Female 16 1825 Northumberland, England
Margaret Grieves Female 10 1831 Northumberland, England
Jane Grieves Female 8 1833 Northumberland, England
Isabella Rochester Female 10 1831 Northumberland, England
Elizabeth Rochester Female 8 1833 Northumberland, England
Margaret Duglas Female 24 1817 Northumberland, England

All born pre-1837, so no Civil reg info

One assumes that Margaret is the mother of the Grieves children, and therefore Rochester is unrelated.

To determine Elizabeth's father's name, get a copy of her marriage cert. Image not online

I'm not sure what you're asking.

Which grandparents do you want help with? The Rochesters, or the Grieves grandparents?

EDIT:
It seems that Margaret Rochester , nee Greaves/Grieves, was Elizabeth's mother (as already suggested by ErikaH).

Posting for our info:

James G Downie
in the 1861 England Census
Name James G Downie
Gender Male
Age 13
Relation Grandson
Estimated Birth Year 1848
Where born Newbiggin, Northumberland, England
Civil parish Newbiggin
Town Newbiggin
County/Island Northumberland
Country England
Registration district Morpeth
Sub-registration district Beddington
ED, institution, or vessel 19e
Neighbors
Household schedule number 66
Piece 3875
Folio 60
Page number 12
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Frances Rochester 59 Head
Margaret Rochester 63 Wife
James G Downie 13 Grandson


Francis Rochester
in the 1851 England Census
Name Francis Rochester
Age 49
Estimated Birth Year abt 1802
Relation Head
Spouse's Name Margaret Rochester
Gender Male
Where born Ryton, Northumberland, England
Civil parish Newbiggin
County/Island Northumberland
Country England
Registration district Morpeth
Sub-registration district Morpeth
ED, institution, or vessel 7
Neighbors
Household schedule number 51
Piece 2418
Folio 485
Page number 15
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Francis Rochester 49 Head
Margaret Rochester 53 Wife
Margaret Greaves 19 Stepdaughter (Step Daughter) - Cramlington, Northumberland
James Greaves Downie 3 Grandson

Margaret Greaves was originally listed as Daughter-in-law, then "in law" is scored out, and "Step" added.
I assume from that, that she was the daughter of Francis's wife Margaret Greaves before they married.

Francis Rochester
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name Francis Rochester
Registration Year 1841 [1841]
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration district Newcastle upon Tyne
Inferred County Northumberland
Volume 25
Page 379
Records on Page (Name)
Margaret Greaves
Francis Rochester

Therefore, presumably Elizabeth was also a daughter of Margaret senior.


You would need a copy of Francis and Margaret's marriage cert to see if Margaret's maiden name was Grieves/Greaves, and her daughters therefore illegitimate, or if she was a widow remarrying.

Margaret Greaves
Vital • England, Northumberland, Parish Registers, 1538-1950
Name Francis Rochester
Sex Male
Marital Status Widowed
Father's Name John Rochester
Father's Sex Male
Spouse's Name Margaret Greaves
Spouse's Sex Female
Spouse's Marital Status Widowed <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Father's Name Jonathan Ramsey <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Father's Sex Male
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 18 April 1841
Event Place Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England, United Kingdom

??? Maybe, not sure:

Margaret Ramsey
Vital • England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Margaret Ramsey, 1795.
Name Margaret Ramsey
Sex Female
Father's Name John Ramsey
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Margaret Gray
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date 22 Nov 1795
Event Place Christ Church, Tynemouth, Northumberland, England


I don't see her marriage to a Grieves/Greaves.

1851 census records Margaret’s birthplace as Throckley, which is to the west of Newcastle

ROCHESTER, MARGARET 64
GRO Reference: 1862 M Quarter in MORPETH Volume 10B Page 191
If age is accurate, born no later than 1797

Thanks everyone !

I know this was a tricky one with the time period being so early and all that, but do believe in taking a chance to ask such things in the hope that something may turn up and that good suggestions or advice is given by those who are able to help.

ArgyllGran - I will take your advice & at some point buy the marriage certificate for the Rochester wedding. Lets see where that takes us....!!

Will let you know in due course.

Thanks again everyone!

Marcus -

did you notice the Rochester marriage details I posted later, on 12 March at 18:08 ?

Margaret was a widow when she married Francis, and her father's name was Jonathan Ramsey.

The actual marriage cert will give you a bit more detail, such as addresses, witnesses' names, etc.

I can't see a record of the marriage of a Margaret Ramsey (or other spelling) to a Greaves/Grieves.

The cert for Elizabeth’s marriage is what you need to get, as it will name her father

The info about Margaret's re-marriage has been provided for you...........:-S :-S :-S

Suggestion..................ONLY

Name Margaret Ramsay
Sex Female
Father's Name Jonathan Ramsay
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Margaret
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date 16 Apr 1797
Event Place Newburn, Northumberland, England


This location is closer to Throckley....................
Tynemouth is on the coast

????????????

A bit late, perhaps........................

Name James Grieves
Sex Male
Spouse's Name Margaret Ramsay
Spouse's Sex Female
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 14 Aug 1830
Event Place Gosforth, Northumberland, England, United Kingdom