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Edward Williams married Alice Smith in Liverpool in April 1896. Edward age 20 and Alice 19. Later census show Edward was born in Manchester. Edward's dad George (mariner).
I can only find one George fitting the bill who was married to a Sarah Ellen Jones Sept 1874. Their first child on the 1881 census was Hannah age 5.
My theory is that for some reason they had Edward first around 1875 but gave him to a relative. I can find an Edward living with uncle (Gabriel Evans) and aunt in 1881 in Liverpool.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can take this forward. The search for the Lancs OPC is still down but no joy so far on the Manchester parishes.
Edward and Alice called their first girl Sarah and boy George, so it seems feasible but I would like to prove it.
Any super sleuths out there??
Thanks Jac

Hi Jac,

Just for ref;

1901 England Census
about Edward Williams
Name: Edward Williams
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Alice
Father's Name: James
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Dock labourer

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Kirkdale
ED, institution, or vessel: 40
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Williams 25
Alice Williams 24
Sarah Teresa Williams 4
Mabel Williams 2
George Francis Williams 1
James Smith 71 Father in law


1891 England Census
about Edward Williams
Name: Edward Williams
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Toxteth Park
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 72
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Gabriel Evans 47 Born Liverpool
Sarah J Evans 48 Born Liverpool
Edward Williams 16


1881 England Census
about Edward Williams
Name: Edward Williams
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Everton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 32 Abram Street
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Gabriel Evans 36
Sarah J. Evans 37
Edward Williams 35 Brother in law, occupation Mat Maker <<<<<<
Esther Williams 9 Neice
Edward Williams 6
John Showorst 44 Boarder


So this maybe this Edwards father


I'll have another dig about, have you found Edward on the 1911 census?


Dee x

I should have asked.............. who are the witnesses on the marriage certificate, just incase they are family.


Dee x

1881 England Census
about George Williams
Name: George Williams
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margeret
Gender: Male
Where born: Nova Scotia, Canada

Civil parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 42 CT 12 H Hornby St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Sailor

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Williams 35
Margeret Williams 35
Micheal G. Williams 15
Margeret Williams 12
Edward Williams 5
Matthew Williams 2


1891 England Census
about Edward Williams
Name: Edward Williams
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Heywood, Manchester

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Less
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Williams 49 <<<<<<<< Sea Sailor
Margaret Williams 45
Edward Williams 15
Matthew Williams 13
Patrick Williams 7
Mary Williams 5


1901 England Census
about Patrick Williams
Name: Patrick Williams
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Less
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 16 Orry (???) Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 132
Household Members: Name Age
George Williams 60 Sailor on Sea Steamship
Margaret Williams 55
Patrick Williams 18
Mary Williams 15


Does this look possible???

Dee x

Hi. Thanks for that. 1901 onwards Edward, Alice and family stayed at the same address in Wolsey St so I know that family is right from there. The witnesses at the wedding in 1896 were William James Hodgson and Winifred Adamson so no family link yet.

The 2nd George does look possible. I had previously discounted this one as 1881 census said Edward born Liverpool but mine born Manchester.

I can't find the 1891 census page on GR . Where did you find it?

I will have to search along that line and see where it leads me.

Thanks very much. Jac

Hi. If anyone else has Ancestry maybe - could you plese see if the following can be found. Is so, is this where it states Edward Williams was born in Manchester please? Jac

1891 England Census
about Edward Williams
Name: Edward Williams
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Heywood, Manchester

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Less
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Williams 49 <<<<<<<< Sea Sailor
Margaret Williams 45
Edward Williams 15
Matthew Williams 13
Patrick Williams 7
Mary Williams 5

I have been trying to contact a George Crowther for ages as he seems to have part of my tree but no answer.

Guess what? He has George born in Nova Scotia on his tree. Guess this may be leading somewhere. Now to see if this Edward was born in Mcr.

Not quite following your last post, Jac.

The 1891 you have posted gives Edward's POB as Heywood, Manchester.


George's is given as Halifax, Nova Scotia and Margaret's as Ballymena, Co Sligo, Ireland. All the other children were born
Liverpool.

The 1881 gives Edward's POB as Liverpool.

I cannot find a Ballymena in Co Sligo - it is in Co Antrim

The address on the 1891 is 13 Doncaster Street. What is the address on the marriage cert?

Hi. My Edward says he was born in Manchester on his census after marriage but the 1881 census has Edward born Liverpool. Her reply for the 1891 census seems to show born Heywood Manchester but I can't find it on GR so I was trying to confirm that that entry definitely says he was born in Manchester.

If you have this 1891 census can you confirm then that it does in fact show Edward born in Manchester and his brothers etc Liverpool. It is very confusing when you don't trust the info on some of the census records. Thanks very much. Jac

Marriage cert shows both Edward and Alice at 15 Leeds St Liverpool. I have since found out that this was to get round paying for 2 lots of Banns to be read!!!!

Jac

The 1891 definiteley shows Edwards POB as Heywood, Manchester.

There is a birth on Lancsbmd site for an Edward Williams, 1876, in Heywood.

Hi. Thanks for that. I had seen that one on the Lancs BMD but once again when I looked for Heywood it comes under Rochdale Registrar so wasn't sure it was close enough to Manchester. This 1891 census entry confirms it!!!!

This is virtually definitely my family so thank you people.

I was on a wrong road already because the 1881 census said he was born in Liverpool and then I couldn't find it on GR for 1891. Just shows how fast you can go off course. Thanks again, Jac.

Hi. 1871 census. George and Margaret married Liverpool 1863.

I can't find Margaret Williams - born Ireland (nee Connor) around 1842 - with her son Michael G born Liverpool June 1/4 1866.

There is a possible find for husband George born Nova Scotia around 1842 in Wandsworth prison but not sure as it says French Polisher and later on he was a Sailor. Why would he be in prison in 1871 in London?

Can anyone find any of these on the 1871 census - maybe Ancestry as I can't see any other choices on GR..

Thanks in advance. Jac

Hi Jac,

When I intially found the other censuses I did a search for the 1871 census on ancestry to see if I could find the family prior to Edwards birth, unfortunately I couldn't see them.

I looked at the 1871 census for George in prison and it definately states he was a french polisher........... it could be him but it's a huge change to then become a mariner??

There's quite a large gap between the births of Margaret and Edward so maybe a second marriage??? I still didn't find a definate link with Margaret and the 2 children though......... so maybe they were in Ireland?



Dee xx

Hi Dee. How spooky was that. I just sent a PM to you as these questions move on so fast and I came back here and there you were!!!!

Thanks again. Jac x

I hadn't thought about her going back to Ireland maybe!!

In my own mind I can see George as a French Polisher who did something wrong and got sent to prison and then found he couldn't go back to that job so became a sailor!!!

Why Wandsworth Prison I wouldn't know.

I spent all last night going through my friends 1871 fiches for that area in Liverpool just in case their name was transcribed but to no avail.

Jac

Well got the marriage cert of George and Margaret. George was a mariner in 1863 and 1881 so I don't think that can be him in the 1871 census in Wandsworth Prison (french polisher).

So I will need to keep looking.

Thanks for all the help so far.

Jac

Very long shot, and I came to this message by accident. My Great Grandad was Edward , (Ted),Edwards, a massive man in stature and reputation from whom sprung a huge family in South Wales, yet his tree runs out with him. I have found him living in the house of one Jane Sillitoe, (herself a bit of a mysterious and interesting character), in Liverpool and described as the "grandson of Head".
His father was from Liverpool, and the Chief Officer on the Steamer "Free Singapore", but was lost at sea. (address given as Falkland Street, Liverpool).
When his father was lost he was eventually sent to live with an uncle who was a blacksmith in Ross On Wye, whose name was Edwards. This man beat and starved him ,and he ran away, getting a rail ticket to Tonypandy because that's how much money he had, where he worked his way up to Colliery manager and later started his own sucessful buisiness.

It occurs to me upon reading your message, since the age, place and occupation of the father are similar, together with the fact that he may have been given away to a relative, that he MIGHT be the same man. Since Edwards was the name of the uncle, he might have taken that name when he was adopted ????????????

As I say, VERY long shot, but do any of the above names places or events mesh ?

Kind Regards,
Philip Dilley

Hi. Thanks for that. Nothing rings a bell but who knows? Will keep this in mind. Thanks Jac