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I am trying to help a friend and we have hit a brick wall. Can anyone help with this?

Griffith Arthur Williams was born in 1847 in Llanegryn, Merionethshire. He was married to Mary Griffiths (born 1869). His parents were William Williams, b 1824 Llanegryn and Catherine Pughe b 1827/8, also in Llanegryn.

We are unable to find any siblings for Griffith Arthur, or for his father William. I would suggest that this is unusual - to just have one child, certainly in two consecutive generations, but appreciate that other siblings may be with other relatives or visiting (or indeed deceased).

I have tried LDS and Hugh Wallis and I have searched Ancestry, as well as trying to find some parish records for this area and this period of time.

If there is anyone out there who can help us at all, we would be most grateful.

Thank you so much

Julie

When did William and Catherine marry....
I can't find a marriage for them.
I have found a Catherine Pughe to a Hugh Williams....1843



oops! found it in 1847

is this your Griffith in 1851?

Name: Griffith Williams
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanegryn, Merionethshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Rhydyrhiw
County/Island: Merionethshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Dolgelly
Sub-registration district: Talyllyn
ED, institution, or vessel: 5c
Household schedule number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
Hugh Pughe 53
Jane Pughe 57
Humphrey Pughe 25
Griffith Williams 3 .....visitor

For ref

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1847 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PUGHE Catherine Dolgelly 27 245
Williams William Dolgelly 27 245

Andy

Hi everyone - thanks for taking up the challenge - finding anyone called Williams is not easy....

Elouise - the marriage was indeed in 1847 at Llanegryn as Andrew has correctly found. I believe that the census entry you have there is our Griffith. I cant refer directly to my friend at this moment, but I know she found him in 1851 - and for this entry (which I also found) the name Pughe - especially with the 'e' - is too much of a coincidence.

I feel frustrated. I keep going back to LDS to do a parent search but Im coming up with nothing that matches.

this could be William and Catherine in 1851?
William a Tailor

Name: William Williams
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Cathrine Williams
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanegryn, Merionethshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Rhydyrhiw
County/Island: Merionethshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Dolgelly
Sub-registration district: Talyllyn
ED, institution, or vessel: 5c
Household schedule number: 54
Household Members: Name Age
William Williams 26
Cathrine Williams 23

Family together in 1861

Name: William Williams
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Cathrine Williams
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanegryn, Merionethshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Rhylcriw
County/Island: Merionethshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Dolgelly
Sub-registration district: Talyllyn
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
William Williams 37
Cathrine Williams 33
Griffith Williams 13
Jane Davies 3
Edward Jones 15


maybe they had more than one child, but only Griffith lived..
Happened to my grandad only him and 1 brother yet his mother had 8 children...only 2 lived :(

Checking my notes that my friend gave me she has ticked 1851 ad 1861 so i will check with her if these entries are correct. She certainly has William down as a tailor so that matches.

With the second entry you have quoted - what is the occupation of William please - and can you tell the relationship for Edward and Jane?

I guess you could be right about there being no more children - perhaps there was something genetic that caused neonatal deaths, hence the reason why my friend cannot find siblings for Griffith or William (or indeed William's father, who was also called Griffith). I guess i was hoping to find some christenings at least, even if the children didnt live.

J

Jane a boarder ...
Edward an apprentice


William's occ: Tailor employing one man....presuming it's Edward

1871

Name: William Williams
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Catherine Williams
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanegryn, Merionethshire, Wales
Civil parish: [Llanegryn]
Town: Llanegryn
County/Island: Merionethshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Dolgelly
Sub-registration district: Talyllyn
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
William Williams 47 .....Tailor employing one man
Catherine Williams 44
Evans Evans 18 .....Tailors apprentice

Thanks Elouise. Its interesting that there are a couple of young apprentices for William - as though he has no children of his own to teach. Perhaps he simply didnt have any children other than Griffith.

I will turn my attention to William himself and see if I can find any siblings for him. His parents were Griffith (no year of birth given) and Catherine Evans b 1809. They married in 1838.

Thank you for all your help this evening x

The National Library of Wales (Aberystwyth) hold many parish records for Chapel baptisms,the ones that are not still in the Chapels themselves.
It does help to be able to search for them (in person) if you have the denomination of the family.

This is their web site.

http://www.llgc.org.uk/

The records online for Wales are far and few between if they are Chapel people,mainly Nonconformist are the ones I come across.

Hope this may help.

Are you sure the marriage date for Griffith Williams and Catherine Evans is right? 1838

I have found this but in 1818

Groom's Name Griffith William
Groom's Birth Date
Groom's Birthplace
Groom's Age
Bride's Name Catherine Evans
Bride's Birth Date
Bride's Birthplace
Bride's Age
Marriage Date 16 May 1818
Marriage Place Llangian,Caernarvon,Wales
Groom's Father's Name
Groom's Mother's Name
Bride's Father's Name
Bride's Mother's Name
Groom's Race
Groom's Marital Status
Groom's Previous Wife's Name
Bride's Race
Bride's Marital Status
Bride's Previous Husband's Name
Indexing Project (Batch) Number M09875-1
System Origin Wales-ODM
Source Film Number 104573
Reference Number

If Catherine was born in 1808 she would have only been 15/16 when William was born....as he's down as born in 1824/5

Elouise

thank you for your last few messages - Im sorry but I had logged off as I didnt expect you to dig any further for the older ancestors. I thank you very much for this.

The information I gave is that which my friend wrote down for me. You are indeed correct to say that Catherine would have been very young when William was born, if the dates are correct. My friend's notes state that she has a copy of the marriage certificate for them - 10th November 1838, which is a good 14 years before the birth year she has given for William.

I guess its possible that she has the wrong person somewhere along the line!

I think I will have to refer back to her when I see her next week and check that she has written everything down correctly.

Thank you once again, most sincerely for your help. I will try to come back to you if I may, once I have more information.

xx

I am trying to find a Mary Williams born c1821 in Llanegryn but have had no luck via Ancestry! She married John Pugh and lived later in Bangor. Does anyone have this or these people in their trees?

Hello Dorinda,

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