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Has anyone any information on George Joseph Wilson married to Violet Smith 11th April 1903 in Chatham, Kent, England? Violet's real name was Georgina Burt Verren (or Verran) but she lived as Violet Smith.

The marriage certificate is the only document I can find on George Joseph Wilson. According to this he was born in 1877. I cannot find any reference to him in the census or births and deaths.

Any information would be appreciated.

Hi Colin. First of all you need to look at the marriage certificate for information. First, their ages, then Their Father's names and occupations, and then witnesses who may be siblings. This is vital in trying to trace them. Let me have the details and I will try to find them. Ethel.

Could you give us all the details from the cert please?

Dea x

Hi Colin.
Birth of Georgina Burt Verran. 1882. Oct/Dec Qtr. registered in Stoke Damerel. Devon. Copy of certificate should give her parents.

Any idea why the change of name. Was she adopted?????? It is unusual for her to be able to marry as Violet Smith unless there was some sort of official change of name.
Marriage certificate should give their ages, their Father's names and occupations, and witnesses who may be siblings. This will help to trace George Joseph. Ethel.

Hi all,

Colin sent me these details earlier today:

Hi Dea

Re George Joseph Wilson

Groom - George Joseph Wilson - aged 26 - Labourer Chatham Dockyard - 65 Brook, Chatham
Bride - Violet Smith - aged 20 - 65 brook, Chatham
Groom's Father - Harry Wilson - Labourer Chatham Dockyard
Bride's Father (Stepfather) - James Smith (deceased) - Ships Corporal RN
Witnesses - H C Symons and T S Austin

Wedding 11 04 1903 St Michael's Church, Chatham (Catholic)

................

I have done some work on this and will need your input please but I haven't much time.

Firstly I have traced Violet on 1901 + 1891:

1901:

Violet Smith
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Truro, Cornwall, England

Civil Parish: Chatham
Ecclesiastical parish: Chatham St Mary
County/Island: Kent
Country: England


Registration district: Medway
Sub registration district: Rochester and Chatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 80
Household Members: Name Age
Wm McCarthy 60
John Saunders 35
Thos Saunders 36
Mary Smith 39 - Violet's mother - widow!
Violet Smith 19

at 65 Brook Street !!!!! - same address as on Wedding Cert !
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 727; Folio: 13; Page: 18.


..............


1891:

at Brook Street !!! - Golden Chambers Lodging House - James Smith is the Manager of lodging house!

I have left in all the 'lodgers' as some of the names DO connect later! - sorry the list is SSooo long !



Name: Violet Smith
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Mary A
Gender: Female
Where born: Plymouth, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Chatham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Chatham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Medway
Sub registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Alkins 39
Richard Andrews 40
William Andrews 57
William Ash 37
James Baron 48
Thomas Best 41
William Bourne 48
J E Bradley 33
John Burns 52
James Burton 64
Richard C Burton 18
Benjamin Caddy 41
Frank Care 31 ???
John Care 34 ???
Harry Carter 48
Henry Cash 41
Edward Chambers 43
John Clarke 34
John Clarke 47
William Clarke 45
David Clunie 52
Peter W Court 28
George Cowhurst 65
William Cushion 62
Daniel Dare 39
William Davis 53
William Dawson 56
William Evans 50
John Gibbons 46
William Gier 46
John M Gowen 44
Patrick Goyne 52
Thomas Hatten 40
Frederick Herman 35
William High 53
George Honey Borne 50
George Horne 25
Harry Hunt 39
Thomas James 29
Benjamin Johnson 44
Joseph Johnson 50
William Jone 51
James Jones 28
Andrew Kelly 27
Henry Kemmington 40
Edward Kennedy 39
Thomas Layton 40
Frederick Lunden 85 ???
George Manning 43
John Martin 40
James Masters 37
William Melis 31
Frederick Messenger 22
James Noakes 44
Joseph Obrien 33
Joseph Oneill 38
William C Patterson 49
Leonard Peters 53
William Pettigrew 18
William Phillips 50
John Pocock 17
Richard Prier 48
Michael Reading 28
Edwin Rigden 68
William Robinson 25
Michael Shein 40
Phillip Shepherd 56
George Simmonds 54
George Slate 50
George Smart 63
James Smith 49 ???
John Smith 72 ???
Mary A Smith 31 ???
Sydney Smith 30 ???
Violet Smith 8 ???
Percy Stewart 33
James Styles 43
Edward Swane 38
George Symons 43 ???
Alfred Taylor 35
William Thorne 23
Charles Videon 58
Joseph Watson 37
George Webb 62
William Webb 54
James E Whitfield 41
George Williams 37
George Williams 55
Charles Willis 53
Richard Wynch 53


Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 662; Folio 93; Page 11; GSU roll: 6095772.

This is the marriage of her mother to James Smith:

Marriages Dec 1884
Lawrence Rose Stoke Damerel 5b 656
Read Thomas Stoke Damerel 5b 656
****Smith James Stoke D. 5b 656
****VERREN Mary Ann Stoke D 5b 656

Dea x

PLEASE do NOT anyone do any work on this just yet as I have George Wilson on ALL census's but again will need some help re marriages just to confirm.

It is a little complex - I have to go off now but will be back by approx 7pm and will post all I have - then I would appreciate your help

Ethel has already posted Violet's correct birth details above!

Thanks,

Dea x

O.K. - I'm back...

Have to do this in sections as it won't all fit on one post:

Firstly I couldn't find the right 'Harry' to be George's father - a few possibles but none would connect up through all the census's
so I then tried to follow witnesses to see if they may be related:

Births Mar 1875
SYMONS Henry Christopher Medway 2a 510
.................

1901:

Household Members: Name Age
Henry Simons 25 .........Hammerman - Dockyard
Polly Simons 23 wife

At 22 Brook St
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 726; Folio: 52; Page: 13.

1891:

Henry C Symons - at 38 Brook St with parents (Samuel + Elizabeth) - he is a Rivet Boy in Shipyard
...............
This would appear to be parent's marriage:
Marriages Sep 1869

JORDAN Elizabeth Medway 2a 653
SYMONS Samuel Medway 2a 653
- no 'obvious' relationship there !
........................

This could well be his marriage to Polly (often short for Mary)
Marriages Dec 1900

>>>Landen Mary Medway 2a 1268
>>>Landew Mary Medway 2a 1268
>>>Symons Henry Christopher Medway 2a 1268

no 'obvious' relationship to Wilson !
....others on page:
Willard Louisa Letitia Medway 2a 1268
Hibbin William Roper Medway 2a 1268

Decided Henry Symons + George Wilson probably just worked together but the Brook Street address was important!
..........
Dea x

The name Harry is often used for Henry - SO, as I couldn't find a Harry to match I looked for a Henry in the same area.....

1901:
Henry Wilson ....................................possible brother for George ?? + father Henry also a Dockyard Labr. ?????????
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Norah
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Chatham
Ecclesiastical parish: Chatham St Mary
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Medway
Sub registration district: Rochester and Chatham
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 121
Household Members: Name Age
Frank McComas 3 grandchild
Robert McComas 1 "
Ada Wilson 19
Annie Wilson 21 dau-in-law (M)
Henry Wilson 53 .skilled labr. - Dockyard c 1848
Henry Wilson 28 " "
Norah Wilson 50

at 4 Cross St.

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 726; Folio: 106; Page: 22.


...............................

on 1891 - 65 Old Rd. - mistranscribed as -WELSON !! - Still no George !!

Henry Welson
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Norah
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Chatham
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Chatham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England


Registration district: Medway
Sub registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ada Welson 5
Albert Welson 2
Annie Welson 12
Henry Welson 43 ...labourer
Henry Welson 21
John Welson 10
Norah Welson 41
William Welson 8

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 663; Folio 63; Page 20; GSU roll: 6095773.



Dea x

I now 'THINK' I've GOTTIM !!!
1881
Henry Willson
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Maria
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Chatham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: 47 Mill Hill
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: General Labourer

Registration district: Medway
Sub registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Avery Willson 2
Edward Willson 7
>>>>> ** George Willson 4
Henry Willson 33
Henry Willson 13
Maria Willson 30 ******************* BUT mother's name is Maria ! ?????

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 893; Folio: 167; Page: 23; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341212.

.........................


1871????????................................ Mother's name NOW Ann ?????????
at 5 Harrison Square??
Henry Wilson
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850 + Henry's birth 2 years out ??
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Chatham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Chatham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Medway
Sub registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 86
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Wilson 21
Henry Wilson 21
Henry Wilson 3
John Wilson 10 months ................... I think this MAY be 'William John from Christenings below:???

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 910; Folio: 82; Page: 16; GSU roll: 823493.
...............


Christenings: - from IGI, which is unreliable, BUT these are 'extracted' so could well be correct?

EDMUND WILSON Pedigree

Christening: 20 MAY 1874 Saint Paul, Chatham, Kent, England


Parents:
Father: HENRY WILSON Family
Mother: HONORA


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in
>>>>>>>>>>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


WILLIAM JOHN WILSON

Christening: 06 JUL 1870 Saint Paul, Chatham, Kent, England


Parents:
Father: HENRY WILSON Family
Mother: ANN NORA


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ELLEN WILSON

Christening: 08 MAY 1872 Saint Paul, Chatham, Kent, England


Parents:
Father: HENRY WILSON Family
Mother: NORA


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record

...............

I found a marriage:

Marriages Dec 1867 ?????????????
Cockell Harry Medway 2a 714
***DARLEY Norah Medway 2a 714
Gamon Emma Medway 2a 714
***Wilson Henry Medway 2a 714

......Can't find any Darleys on previous census !!!!!!!!

BUT - I don't know where Maria fits in - Have I got 2 families, or did 'Ann Nora', Honora, Nora, also call herself 'Maria' at some stage??

I can't find any marriage for a 'Maria'.

Can anyone else?

Opinions needed here please - I don't want to send Colin off on the wrong track!!

Dea x

nudge for help please

Dea x

Dea,
Have looked at baptism on cityark site (Medway parish registers online)
http://cityark.medway.gov.uk
July 6th 1870 William John parents Henry/AnnNora
Hogg Lane looks like Whittaker
father Labourer R.D.Y

Same site has Henry /Norah marriage as index above but i cannot read the image!

Janice - BRILLIANT SITE !!!!!

Unfortunately,I have no relatives there BUTreally useful for look-ups!

Haven't had any timne to spend there today but will have a 'play' as soon as I have a minute!!

Many thanks,

Dea x

P.S. - The image IS very difficult but I have gained some info from it!

Thanks again,

Dea x

Hi

Cityark website will not open for me.

Any ideas?

Colin

Hi Colin,

It won't open for me either just at the moment but it did yesterday!

I think there must be a problem with the site.

Try it again later - it will be REALLY useful to you.

Dea x