General Chat

Can any one help me,
On my grandmother and grandfathers marriage Cert. Ref. No.
it shows he was married to two woman, on the same day??
William Elliott married a Eliza Bodman
1. C.544. July----Sept 1888 Bethnal Green
on same place and date it shows
William Elliott married a Annie Copper
1.C.544. July---Sept. 1888 Bethnal Green
How can that be?? same day same date?
the correct woman is Eliza Bodman, must be a mistake, do you think
I would love to know how its come about, any Ideas??

Do you mean this reference on freebmd?
Marriages Sep 1888

COPPER Annie Bethnal Green 1c 544
ELLIOTT William Bethnal Green 1c 544
WOLSTENCROFT Edward Coulton Bethnal Green 1c 544

There is no hint from the order of the names about who married who. The reference just means that their marriage details are all logged on the same page of the GRO files
On Ancestry site there is an image of the parish record entry, which confirms that William Elliott married Eliza BODMAN

EDIT
Name: Eliza Bodman ....ironer
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Spouse Name: William Elliott ...tinfoil worker
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 22 Jul 1888
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Robert Bodman .......painter
Spouse Father Name: James Elliott ...traveller

Eliza signed her name, William made his mark X
Eliza's address was 61 Hackney Road, William's was 54 Hare Street, Bethnal Green.

Witnesses were Robert BODMAN (made his mark X)
and Mary Ann LOWDE (signed)
Gwyn

It seems Eliza has gone into the wrong Qtr,,,& the last 4 is missing off her entry


Marriages Sep 1888 (>99%)
Bodman Eliza Bethnal Green 1c 54
Capper William Baume London C 1c 54
DENNY Alfred Ephraim London C. 1c 54
Parry Helen Margaret London City 1c 54
Simonds William George London C. 1c 54
WOODMAN Phebe Jane M London C. 1c 54
______________

Marriages Sep 1888 (>99%)
COPPER Annie Bethnal Green 1c 544
ELLIOTT William Bethnal Green 1c 544
WOLSTENCROFT Edward Coulton Bethnal Green 1c 544

From Ancestry London Marriages...2 different marriages on the same page of the church register within one day of each other...

Name: William Elliott
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Spouse Name: Eliza Bodman
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 22 Jul 1888
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: James Elliott
Spouse Father Name: Robert Bodman

Name: Annie Copper
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Spouse Name: Edward Coulton Wolstencroft
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 23 Jul 1888
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Charles Copper
Spouse Father Name: Elijah Wolstencroft

Linda

Edit...If you would like the image of the page send me a pm.

Jiminy Cricket and Laughalot


if you'd read this thread carefully, you would see that the problem has been solved


not one man marrying a woman who had a previous name .........

....... but a case of wrong transcription of the page number on the GRO Index



The two woman not only had different surnames, they had different christian names as well!


Poeple had even found the certificates on the London Marriages on ancestry, showing exactly who married who!




sylvia

Is this your Grandmothers birth entry?

Births Jun 1868 (>99%)
BODMAN Eliza Clerkenwell 1b 639

sorry Jiminy


in this "no times" era of GR, there was no evidence showing as to how close you had posted to the previous poster


all I know is that I saw LindaB's posting, and then saw yours about 2 hours later, and all indications were that it had been posted close to the end of the 2 hours.


It was I think a natural assumption that you would have read all the thread before posting!



so I apologise for not knowing that you were a slow typist


But why did you not delete your message, or make an EDIT to it when you saw that you were in error?




sylvia

Hi, every one, thanks for all your help, I see what it is now, just people all getting married on the same day, It looked to me as if it was a mitake, or two people getting married to same person, but I was wrong, I though every marriage had a seperate number i.e.1c544, I did not know that
it was the page, and there would be more than one marrige on the page
many thanks to every one, charleyboy.

charleyboy


you are very welcome!



sylvia

Hi Gwyn in Kent, re. the post ,Eliza Bodman and the spouse
William Elliott.
I notice the parents Robert Bodman and James Elliott,
James Elliott is down as a Traveller?? could that be a Gipsy Traveller,
Just wondered , as there is suposed to be a bit of romany in a part of the family, any way to check if its true??
cheers charleyboy.

Im taking it this is yur Eliza on 1871 census

BEDMAN, Robert Head M 24 1847 Middlesex VIEW
BEDMAN, Charlotte Wife F 22 1849 Middlesex VIEW
BEDMAN, Eliza Daughter F 3 1868 Middlesex VIEW
BEDMAN, Robert Son M 1 1870 Middlesex VIEW

they are living at Bowling Green Lane, St James Clerkenwell

and this is Robert on 1861 census with parents

BODMAN, James Head Married M 41 1820 Plumber Labourer
Mile End
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, Ann Wife Married F 43 1818
...
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, Ann Daughter Unmarried F 17 1844 Servant
St Andrews
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, Robert Son Unmarried M 14 1847 Scholar
Clerkenwell
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, William Son M 9 1852 Scholar
Clerkenwell
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, Maria Daughter F 5 1856
Clerkenwell
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, Thomas Son M 2 1859
Clerkenwell
Middlesex VIEW

they are living at 71, Pear Tree Court, Clerkenwell

and again on the 1851 Census

BODMAN, James Head Married M 35 1816 Laborer Out Of Work
Mile End
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, Ann Wife Married F 34 1817
Leaveland
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, Charles Son M 12 1839
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, Ann Daughter F 7 1844
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, Robert Son M 4 1847
Clerkenwell
Middlesex VIEW
BODMAN, George Son M 1 1850
Middlesex VIEW

they are living at 33, Noble Street, Saint James Clerkenwell, Finsbury

Cheers footi--angel, yes its the Bodman family,it tallys with what I have ,
but you have found a bit more for me, many thanks, bit more for the tree,
many thanks again footie angle.

yvw Charley have been looking for yur Elliots too but to no avail esp regarding Travellers sorry I cant assist yu no more but good luck finding them all x

a couple of sites that may be of interest

http://romanyconnections.wetpaint.com/page/Irish+Travellers+Surnames%3A

and

http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/gypsy.html

and

http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/journal3.html

sylvialncanad
me and jiminy cricket may be a bit slow typing but i see we can at least spell people NOT POEPLE

charley


there is a Public Family tree on ancestry ....... no documentation for it, so no evidence that it is true


Ray Willis family Tree
Owner: raywillis09

Eliza Willis Formerly Elliott Nee Bodman

Birth 1867
Death 13 12 1944 in Mildmay Hosp.Islington London 47 Swinton St. W.C.1
Age: 77


Parents

Robert Bennifield Bodman

Charlotte Swain


No siblings shown


Spouse & Children

Robert Frederick Willis
1863 –

Robert Edward Frederick Willis
1912 – 1947



-----------------------


looking at freebmd.org.uk

Marriages Dec 1911 (>99%)

Bailey Rosina Islington 1b 361
>>>> Elliott Eliza Islington 1b 361
Goldsmith James W Islington 1b 361
>>>> Willis Robert Islington 1b 361



Births Sep 1912 (>99%)

Willis Robert E F Bodman Holborn 1b 1110




sylvia

just trying to find the Elliotts

is this your William and Eliza in 1891??

1891 Census

Name: Eliza Elliott
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Elliott
Gender: Female
Where born: Clerkenwell

Civil parish: St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish: St Clement
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: City Road

William Elliott 25 b.ca 1866, City Road, London, Tin foil
Eliza Elliott 24


Address:- 54 Baldwin St



it's almost as if William didn't exist before his marriage, certainly not with father James!


I think, but only think, that this might be him in 1881 ................. if only because of his job!


1881 Census

Name: William Elliott
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Sarah Ann Elliott
Gender: ale
Where born: Bermondsey

Civil parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 8 Minto Street

Occupation: Tin Workers Porter

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Leather Market

Sarah Ann Elliott 52 b.ca 1829, Yorkshire, Widower, Tailoress
William Elliott 16
James Elliott 13 b.ca 1868, Bermondsey, Scholar



I'm also suspicious that this is the same family (Sarah + William + James) in 1871 .... except father is not James. The problem is that they have entered all their birth places as British Subject!!


1871

Name: Sarah Elliott
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Elliott
Gender: Female
Civil parish: St Saviour
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Saviour Southwark

William Elliott 56 b.ca 1815, Labourer
Sarah Elliott 45 Dress Maker
David Elliott 18 Labourer
Elizabeth Elliott 14 Dress Maker
Jane Elliott 12
Anne Elliott 10
William Elliott 7
James Elliott 3

Address:- 11 Red Crop Court


EDIT:- 1871 family is not yours ...... according to the 1861 Census, Wiiliam and Sarah and the 3 eldest children were all born in Ireland.





you might gather that I'm having no success finding a William with a father James

........ and all I wanted to do was see what sort of Traveller James was!!!!!




sylvia

Hi Charleyboy,

A Traveller is a Travelling Salesman, and most likely not to have any connection to Gypsies.

LA