Genealogy Chat

Just thought I'd get some input from those wiser than me who might know the answer.

It appears my grandmother and her sisters have been registered twice, once under the mother husbands name and once under their actual fathers name, all have the same volume and page number.

I guess this means they all have two birth certificates.

Could someone take a look and give me some feedback on this

Kirby Kitty Mendham Sculcoates 9d 212 Dec 1919
Hurd Kitty Mendham Sculcoates 9d 212 Dec 1919

Kirby Marie Mendham Sculcoates 9d 235 Jun 1922
Hurd Marie Mendham Sculcoates 9d 235 Jun 1922

Kirby Maud Mendham Sculcoates 9d 153 Dec 1924
Hurd Maud Mendham Sculcoates 9d 153 Dec 1924

The query is could it be possiable they have two certs each? I already have Mauds 'Hurd' birth certificate, Kirby is only stated as the mother name with her formerly being mendham. I will order the second 'Kirby' one see what I get.

I know they are definately the same people listed and its not just coincidence also that my great gran Kate Mendham was married to George Kirby, but moved on to Ernest Hurd, they though never married.

So what are your thoughts? Does anyone have an ancestor with two birth certificates.

When a woman has a child it is registered with her surname (which will be her husband's name if she is married or her maiden name if she is single).

This lady was obviously still married at the time of the births (or separated but still had the Kirby name) so the children were registered in her married name.

The real father could then sign some sort of declaration saying he was the father and they could then be registered in his name too.

I have seen this happen before.

I'm not sure whether the second certificate cancels the first one or not, so you may just get the Hurd certificate if you try to order the Kirby one.

Kath. x

This usually happens when the parents of the child are Not married? but the father went to the registry office with the mother to register them with and in his name, so their are two entries for the birth, one in mums name and one in dads, But their is only one cert whichever reference you use to buy the cert will be the same

I will just point out that the reason i no this is because i have children registered in the same way


Roy

Thankyou for your very prompt responses. I will order the second copy of my grandmother's birth cert, out of curiosity to see what I get, if its the same as the first it will just mean my brother will get an orginal instead of a photocopy.

I didn't though realise that you could be registered twice in such a way.

I was lucky though my grandmother told my mum about her parents not being married and that she (my grandmother) did not find this out till after her mother had passed away or else I could have spent much longer than I did looking for an none existant marriage.

Thankyou for your help.

I had the same thing - but the volume page number stuff was still the same on both of the entries.

Hi PME,

I have the same thing but from the 1940's. My relly was registered under two surnames, same page/ vol numbers. On the first cert, mother's married name, the father is listed with different surname. The cert has "adopted" on right hand side of cert. On second cert, the child has same surname as father and mother's details are still the same, previous married name plus maiden name.

So, they had the child while mother was still married to someone else and the birth father had to adopt his own child.

Hope this hasn't confused you.



Deb:)

I think you may find that the mother was known by both names, if this was the case, the births would be recorded under both names.

Are you sure of the actual fathers name?

I am sure of the father from what my parents have told me also Hurd is the fathers surname on my grandmothers wedding certificate.

I am also ordering what I think is my great grandmothers death cerificate, after trawling the indexs I have found an entry thats probably her death under Hurd, as theres nothing that even looks close under Kirby or Mendham. Although this makes sense as my gran believed her parents were married until she was informed this was not the case after she had passed away, so my great gran clearly spent many years being known as Mrs Hurd, so anyone registering the death probably assumed she had married my great grandad and was actually Mrs Hurd.

I have also had this piece of my tree confirmed by someone related to one of my grandmothers half siblings from my great grandmothers first (and only) marriage. They have my great grandmother anf grandad as acouple but like me cannot find a wedding.

I though have only just found out about the double entry as I intailly used genes indexs to find my nans birth ref, but just last night decided to have a look for the siblings references on freebmd, teach me to be curious.

Better get ordering the certificates to see if my assumptions are correct.

Thankyou to everyone for your input.

It is only in relatively recent years that the child's surname is recorded. Before that, it was inferred from the parents' names.

Because this child's parents were not married, but the mother had previously married, the birth would correctly be recorded in the index with her married name, ie. the child was the daughter of Mrs Kirby, ...but with the father's name recorded on the certificate it would be indexed under his surname too.

One registration, ...indexed twice.

Gwyn