Genealogy Chat

Just thought of a little exercise that might be useful.

Did the various Doreen Ps have siblings / identifiable parents?


> DOREEN P COLVILLE mmn Trutch Edmonton 4/4 1918

Births Dec 1916
Colville Cynthia D Trutch Edmonton 3a 1096

Huh. Two Colvilles married two Trutches, 1913 and 1917. So right off the bat, who knows on that one?? Seems accounted for one way or the other, though.


> doreen P Harmer mmn Granades Steyning 4/4 1918

no marriage after 1910, no other births. But is Granades a real name? ... No.

Marriages Sep 1914
Harmer Frederick W, Dorothy Granados Steyning 2b 574

No other births.


> Doreen P Wood mmn Jones Atcham 4/4 1918

Yeah, I'm gonna search those ones ...

Actually, there are about 8 Wood-Jones births in Atcham 1911-1930, so far.


> DOREEN P WRIGHT mmn Orwell 4/4 1918

Births Mar 1930
Wright Mona M Orwell Tendring 4a 1290

Maybe, maybe not.

Marriages Mar 1918
Wright Leonard G Orwell Edmonton 3a 1250
- wife not transcribed.


> DOREEN P JACOBS mmn Humphreys Romford 1/4 1919

No other births.

Marriages Sep 1913
Jacobs Mary A G, Henry J Humphreys Fulham 1a 933


> Doreen P Newton mmn Parsley Bristol 1/4 1919

Births Sep 1922
Newton William A E Parsley Swindon 5a 28

Marriages Jun 1913
Newton Francis H J, Katherine P Parsley Bristol 6a 273


> Doreen P Shipp mmn Gunner Croydon 1/4 1919

Births Sep 1913
Shipp John C K Gunner Croydon 2a 782
Births Mar 1919
Shipp Doreen P Gunner Croydon 2a 445
Shipp Raymond K Gunner Croydon 2a 446

Marriages Jun 1911
SHIPP Robert H K, Eleanor B Gunner Reigate 2a 418



So. The upshot is that there don't seem to be any strays among the Doreen Ps born in the timeframe.


I'm thinking that the entire certificate is a fraud, and all you can do is hope that the date of birth itself is correct.

Presumably the local registrar would be able to identify births on that date??

Thank heavens you didnt get a jobsworth registrar.
He might be related to my poor long suffering lady reg.
She groans whenever she hears my voice on the phone,I dont even have to say who it is now.
But she still goes the extra mile
Well [cheap] flowers and choccies go a long way I have found.

Do you think they'll decide the cert was a fraud and revoke her birth? ;)

Sort of like when they find out a marriage was bigamous!

Now I'm wondering about the old parish records in the little Cornwall parish one bunch of mine hail from. My greatx4 grandfather, I've discovered, was the parish clerk there (and "a worthy man", so it says in his death entry). (And interestingly, one of his greatx2 granddaughters, not in my own line, was a registry office clerk in 1901. And here's me, of course -- BMDs are in those genes.) But I guess if he was such a worthy man he wouldn't have been falsifying stuff. ;)

Hurry up and get him that copy now!

Guess who got a phone call from Wandsworth RO today? Pats Mum doesn't appear in the book/page no that I got from the short certificate.

Thankfully the guy at the office is as intrigued as I am and has asked to see the short certificate. So will get a copy tomorrow from Pat and send.

Doreen, we will find you!

Just read this and I am as eager as everyone else for the next instalment.

Good luck with your search. Like the others, I'm awaiting the outcome, it's so interesting is this story.

So do I. The certificate did give me the page and book reference so I included those and a contact phone number. They haven't called me.

Hmmmm. Relative who was a registrar, record not making it to the GRO........

I hope Wandsworth Register office can find it.

Rose

Oh gosh Janet ,
what an intresting thread .. cant wait
for the cert to arrive .
i love a mystery.
Hazelx

I haven't had a following like this since I found the bus driver's birth mother!

I can't wait. Its going to be a disappointment if it only gives her "parents" details.

Pat showed me some old photos she'd found amongst her Mums stuff. OMG they are wonderful! I've got a fair idea who they are of. One of them has Scarnell/Rooke written on the back. Its an old lady in bed with her bonnet on and her daughter sitting on a chair next to her.

Well, judging by the clothing and the type of picture I dated it to the 1880's. So I looked for a Scarnell/Rooke marriage and Voila! Thos. Rooke married Hannah Scarnell 1865 and in the 1891 their neighbour was a photographer. So chances are it is Hannah and her mother Sarah Scarnell born C1797 who died 1889. The weird thing is, Pats Mum was the absolute double of the old lady, something which shouldn't be so unless Sarah was her ancestor.

Hannah and Thomas's family lived in Lambeth, not a milion miles from Putney/Wandsworth and it was their daughter Lily who worked as a registrar. Roll on tomorrow when, fingers crossed, the certificate should arrive.

Me too! So I'll just stick my mark on the thread so I'll see when something new comes up. ;)

Been following this thread with intrest..........please do put up the details when you get the full cert.



Nicky

Yes I'm always suspicious of short certificates too. They can hide a multitude of misdemeanors.The certificate was issued on 30th December 1918 so only 20 days after the birth. The "parents" appear to have spent their married life together in and around Palmers Green so why have the baby in Putney if she is theirs? (Though, having said that, my own great gran had her third child some 15 miles away from home.)

What makes me even more suspicious is that one of the fathers relations was a registrar so would have known that a short certificate would not reveal parentage.

I do hope Wandsworth RO get the certificate to me soon! (They reckon a day turn around)

Good job she found that.

I'm always a bit suspicious of short certs.

Do you know when it was issued?

Rose

Janet

This is what is known as "real research", where the answer isn't obvious and you have to go round the houses to get there. It is really exciting when you do get there.

Hope the full certificate gives lots of good info - let us know.

Maggie

Pat has now located her mum's certificate. However, it is only a short one so I've ordered a copy of the full version. It transpires that she was born in Putney!!!!!!!!

Now from the 1911 there are a pile of Rookes living there so they must be related to her Father. Some of the Putney mob are also listed in Doreen's old address book.

Can't wait till the full certificate arrives. I wonder if it will reveal anything about her real parentage.

In 10 years this is the first time I've had a certificate which didn't make it to the GRO

Possible?

Births Mar 1882 Rook Walter Sidney Hackney 1b 49_

Marriages Sep 1903
JONES Clementina Shoreditch 1c 223
Neville Frederick Shoreditch 1c 223
Rook Walter Sidney Shoreditch 1c 223
SMITH Phoebe Emily C Shoreditch 1c 223

Births Mar 1913 Rooke Frank G Smith Hackney 1b 941

Births Sep 1916 Rook Charles W Smith Shoreditch 1c 101

Births Dec 1921 ROOK Benjamin E R Smith Hackney 1b 811

Do you have Doreen's marriage certificate? Who is listed as her father?

So sorry not to have come back yesterday to answer your queries, I went to bed cos I had a splitting headache. This morning was the first time in three days that I awoke without it.

Yes, I'm certainly suspicious that Ernest's brother was Doreen's father. His name was Walter Sidney Rook (no e on the end) Of course I could be barking up the wrong tree as I'm assuming that the father died whereas it could just as easily been the mother died because of the 'flu epidemic.

Background info I have is that Ernest was a brute of a man to both wife and daughter. I don't know if he was physically violent but he certainly knew how to intimidate them. Consequently Doreen never talked about her childhood.

Now as for the three other Rooke/Bartlett children I think they were the children of Daniel George Rooke (b1895) and Rose Bartlett who married 3rd quarter 1920. I'm sure they are probably related but not sure how yet.
Funnily enough on the 1901 Daniel Rooke's family are down as both Rooke and Rook.

Doreen was an only child as far as my friend knows.

What is Ernest's brother's name?

Is it possible that the registration never made it onto the GRO master index, but could be in a local list?

Am I reading between the lines that you think the deceased brother could be her father...?

Gwyn