Genealogy Chat

Many -

you have posted your request three times on this thread , and also on your own thread:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1391815

As you've already been advised, there is no point in posting the same thing again.
We have found all that we can.
Have you read all the answers to your queries on both threads?

If you particularly want to contact Elizabeth, who started this thread about Romany Gypsies in general, you can try sending her a private message by clicking on her name in green at the top of one of her posts, and using the resulting form.
GR will then notify her of your message.

However, as she hasn't posted anything here since 2019, she may no longer be able or willing to reply.

As far as Violet's concerned, sometimes we have to accept that we've reached a dead end.

Hi Elizabeth

My family of interest is Gritt. But also need to find my grandmothers birth and family.
Her name was Violet Smith. She married Frank Gritt in July 1923 aged 23, Frank was 54. His second marriage. Her father was William Smith, deceased, labourer. Marriage was at Bishops Waltham, Hants. Violet abode was Corhampton Downs same as Frank. As you can see with a surname like Smith trying to find Violets birth is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Also she stated age as 23 in 1923 but on death certificate her age was 53 in 1957. So birth 1900-1904.
Any help gratefully appreciated as my mum has just turned 80 and last of Frank and Violets children.

Mandy's posts on here are directed at Elizabeth, but, as she hasn't been on here for two years, and was ill in 2019, she may not see them

Please stick to your own thread, Mandy.

It's confusing for us to have to keep looking at two threads in case we've missed something.
The same people look at all the threads, so you only need one.

Posting more than once won't advance your cause.

Yes I have lots of information on Frank Gritt and his family going back to 1700s. It is Violet Smith that is needed. I don’t think I’m ever going to find her true family or birth.

Hi Elizabeth, my family, my grandfather Frank Gritt was son of William and Mary Gritt nee Sherrod known as Granny Gritt. My grandfather married Ellen Green in 1889 in Boldre then in 1923 married at Bishops Waltham my grandmother Violet Smith she was a hawker 23yrs her father William Smith labourer deceased Corhampton Downs. Violet died 1957 aged 53. Frank died 1959 aged 90. Both buried at Fawley, Hants.
The gypsy and traveller is part of the Gritt family.
My mother said her mother Violet Smith never had any family, talk from elderly aunt that she had a brother David. They were sold or adopted family in Park Gate called Dobey/Doby. How true I do not know. My mother is nearly 80 and the last of her family. I would love to be able to give her some information before it’s too late. Many thanks for any help Mandy

As Elizabeth hasn't posted since 2019, don't be too surprised if she doesn't respond now

Mandy -

Frank's ancestry is easy to find, so I'm assuming it's Violet's side of the family you're trying to trace?

Assuming she was born in Hampshire, I don't see her birth - but as said many times in this thread, travellers are very hard to find in records - often impossible.

Is Corhampton Down where her father died, or was it her address at the time of her marriage?

You say Violet and her brother David were "adopted or given away". That would likely have been an informal arrangement, probably with relatives. Certainly she kept her birth surname - assuming her father was indeed called William Smith.

But maybe Smith was her adoptive surname, and William Smith her adoptive father.
Or maybe she invented a father for the sake of respectability on the marriage cert.



ADDED:

Ah, I see you already have a thread of your own about this family:
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1391815

Hi I wonder if you could help me find my grandmothers family.
Her name is Violet Smith.
She married Frank Gritt in July 1923 at Bishops Waltham. Her father is William Smith labourer deceased, Corhamptonmpton Downs. Violet was a hawker.
Violet died 12 Jun 1957 at Fawley aged 53.
1939 register at Fawley birth as Jun 1903.
An elderly aunt spoke of a brother David and they were both adopted or given away. Mention of family Dobey/Doby in Park Gate.
The Gritt families were hawkers, gypsies travellers. Frank married Ellen Green who was a Romany.
Any info you can help me with would be much appreciated. Franks mother was Mary Gritt nee sherrod known as Grann6 Gritt, married to William.

Hi ArgyllGran, Yes trying to find Bridget is like trying to find a needle in a haystack! LOL

You're very welcome, Ann!
It's a pity there seems to be no sign of Bridget in 1911.
The travellers are indeed hard to track.

ArgyllGran, Thank you so much! You were spot on with the Lyons/Lines/Lines family... I am still looking for the burial place of William and Bridget... it seems to be my biggest roadblock at this time.. I appreciate all the information you found... Alfred Lyons was my great grandfather. I keep trying... but am still having no success... Thanks again for all the information! Much appreciated! Ann

Sorry to hear that Elizabeth, hope you're improved. It's a couple of years since you posted on this thread so I think we thought you didn't any longer.

Over to you -

Hi yes I am still posting just been porly

Judith - have a look back a bit and you'll see that Elizabeth doesn't appear to be posting anymore.

When you say you're looking for information - what do you already have so we don't duplicate.

Is this Mary Ann -

England Births and Christenings
Name Mary Ann Grits
Gender Female
Christening Date 19 Apr 1819
Christening Date (Original) 19 APR 1819
Christening Place Eling, Hampshire, England
Father's Name James Grits
Mother's Name Hester Grits

They seem to be baptising children in Eling from at least 1817 -

https://www.familysearch.org - free to search

Hello Liz

I am looking for information regarding members of my family,

Samuel Harris my 2xgdad 1816 /1845 his wife Mary Ann Gritt 2xgmother 1819/1892

Plus her mother Esther White my 3xgmother 1780/1834.
Would be very grateful for any information about them. I believe they were all from around the Hampshire area. Many thanks Judith

:-) :-)

1891 says Bridget was born in Bradford - which only muddies the waters even more. Her birth year also varies quite a bit:

Bridget Lyons
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Bridget Lyons
Gender: Female
Age: 46
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1845
Spouse: William Lyons
Child: Lydia Lyons
Frederick Lyons
Alfred Lyons
Mary A Lyons
George Lyons
Katherine Lyons
Birth Place: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Oswestry
Residence Place: Oswestry, Oswestry, Shropshire, England
Sub registration district: Oswestry
ED, Institution or Vessel: 18
Neighbors:
Piece: 2117
Folio: 117
Household Members:
Name Age
William Lyons 44 - horse dealer
Bridget Lyons 46
Lydia Lyons 18
Frederick Lyons 17
Alfred Lyons 13
Mary A Lyons 10
George Lyons 8
Katherine Lyons 6


But 1881 and 1901 both say born Bury St Edmunds, and that's where she was married

William and Bridget's daughter Lydia in 1911, in another field - so Bridget's not with her either:

Lydia Arnold
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Lydia Arnold
Age in 1911: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, England
Civil Parish: Wem Urban
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street address: Caravan In Talbot Yard, Wem
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 18
Estimated Marriage Year: 1893
Registration district: Wem
Registration District Number: 352
Sub-registration district: Wem
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 165
Piece: 16198
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Arnold 41
Lydia Arnold 37
Isaac Arnold 14
Rose Arnold 11
Emma Arnold 9
William Arnold 6

Lydia died in Birmingham in 1914. Probate to Jeremiah Lyons, horse dealer.


Unfortunately, as Bridget was a traveller/hawker, she could have married or died anywhere, and it's not an uncommon name

EDIT:

NO, IGNORE THIS marriage below. I forgot William only died in 1909.



Just a possibility, there's this marriage;

Marriages Dec 1907 (>99%)
LYONS Bridget Merthyr T. 11a 1376
TYLER Edith Maud Merthyr T. 11a 1376
VAUGHAN William Joseph Merthyr T. 11a 1376

Unfortunately, it's no help!

William Joseph and Edith Maud are together in 1911, and this record doesn't show the other bridegroom's name.



In the 1911 census, I don't see a Bridget born c 1849 in Bury St Edmunds. (So far, at least).
In 1891 her name is spelled Brigit.